Endurance vs Hit Points (suggestion for Francesco & co.)

[Woodclaw]

I think there another elephant in the room regarding this idea: bookeeping.
While it's true that in a combat encounter the players often have to adjust their Endurance every other round or so, but having to do so every round for such small amount is quite the chore in my book. While the logic behind this idea is solid, the effects are potentially devastating on the game, adding one more thing to keep track of and making the whole deal of combat potentially tedious.

[thegiffman]

I think there another elephant in the room regarding this idea: bookeeping.
While it's true that in a combat encounter the players often have to adjust their Endurance every other round or so, but having to do so every round for such small amount is quite the chore in my book. While the logic behind this idea is solid, the effects are potentially devastating on the game, adding one more thing to keep track of and making the whole deal of combat potentially tedious.

Yeah, this is what Glorelendil said, and it's a fair point. The idea of fatigue tests for a particularly long combat makes sense, but perhaps the system just takes care of itself with the normal endurance losses.

[Glorelendil]

Nobody else responded to Rocmistro's observation: your gear gives you a starting fatigue value that perfectly accomplishes the OP's goal: the heavier your arms and armor, the faster you get Weary in combat.

[Rocmistro]

Back to some real life anecdotes to back up the meta, which, I know..I know...take with a grain of salt and all that.

I have done some real-life fighting, or at least training at fighting.
There is the Endurance loss from physcially moving around. It is taxing, to be sure, but it also recovers quickly. And then there is pain...and pain has its own special debilitating affect on the body.

I box (mostly fitness but I've done a little sparring too.) (yes, my name is Rocky and I box...I swear I'm a real person). I can go at the heavy bag solidly for 5 minutes, to the point where I'm ready to puke. I'm talking non-stop combinations and body blows. But if I step back and take a 30 second breather, I'm good to go again.

But going into spar...if I take someone's #2 punch to the head, even with the headgear on...my brain is rattled for the rest of the night, and I will feel "off" for a couple hours. A 4 or 5 punch to the ribs/abs (where you have no protection)...that is a gift that keeps on giving, let me assure you. You don't always feel it at first, but about 6 minutes later, your torso is screaming at you. Your ribs feel like someone carved them into punji sticks and rearranged the orientation.

I think injury pain registers at a very subconscious level, and it's a nagging argument on your brain to stop whatever it is you are doing so you don't get permanently injured.

Anyway...yeah. Long story short, I don't know that moving about needs to be registered numerically as anything more than your total starting endurance and your staring fatigue level.

[Terisonen]

Simplicity and less bookkeeping is the point here... The less GMs has to bookkeep the more he is focused in Role-Playing (and not Rule-Playing).

[Angelalex242]

The counterpoint to the heavy armor being terrible is that Medieval Knights wouldn't wear full plate if it wasn't useful.

So the whole fatigue from armor thing is overdone. Either that, or King Arthur's Knights are just so much tougher then Lord of the Ring characters that they laugh at heavy armor fatigue.

Or Maybe the Arthurian Knight culture has a 'Armored' virtue. 'You take only 1/3 the normal fatigue from wearing armor, rounded down, and none at all from weapon and shield and helmet.

[zedturtle]

The counterpoint to the heavy armor being terrible is that Medieval Knights wouldn't wear full plate if it wasn't useful.

So the whole fatigue from armor thing is overdone. Either that, or King Arthur's Knights are just so much tougher then Lord of the Ring characters that they laugh at heavy armor fatigue.

Or Maybe the Arthurian Knight culture has a 'Armored' virtue. 'You take only 1/3 the normal fatigue from wearing armor, rounded down, and none at all from weapon and shield and helmet.

Or they exist in two different literary mileus. With different expectations.

[Michebugio]

While I partially agree on the armor fatigue being overdone, also remember that Arthurian armors were full plates, which is practically a huge technological step beyond the mail: tougher, better designed, better distributed weight, sometimes even lighter than the mail itself. The chainmail is heavy as hell, but in the Wilderlands it's the best armor around and your only choice in terms of protection.

On the other hand, a mail *is* a better protection than going around naked, of course, but in terms of in-play efficiency this is simply not true. The point is that mail is an advantage, but it is expensive. In a game where there almost isn't a money system, the "advantageous but expensive" thing simply cannot exist. Hence the fatigue vs. protection.

I've read (and made myself) a lot of house rules about this, from damage reduction to less starting fatigue but higher TNs for fatigue rolls. In the end I always feel that the game mechanics should be kept simple as they are.

BUT if you really want to introduce your rule, thegiffman, I would recommend to make it a +1 to Fatigue every round (or maybe when a Sauron is rolled, or else), rather than a -1 to Resistance.

[Glorelendil]

Let us also remember that in "Arthurian" England men fought in shield walls with mail and linden shields. The whole knight in shining armor riding around with a lance is pure anachronism.

[Angelalex242]

Sir Thomas Mallory is not concerned by trivial details like putting 1500 AD armor on 500 AD warriors. Have at you, knave!