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I am considering implementing the following house rules. Some of these ideas have shown up in other places (such as Rich H's compilation), and I do not want to take credit for them as my own. Comments welcome.

Weapon Skills

I do not like the way weapon skills apply to individual weapons. It seems counter-intuitive with the more generic nature of the 18 common skills (where athletics applies to running, jumping, swimming, and riding horses).

My solution is to reduce the number of weapons skills to the following:

Dagger - includes brawling, using/throwing daggers, using/throwing improvised weapons, using clubs/staffs
Sword - includes using short swords, swords, and long swords
Axe - includes using/throwing hatchets (see below), and using axes, long-hafted axes, great axes, and mattocks
Spear - includes using/throwing spears and using great spears
Bow - includes using small bows (see below), bows, and great bows

Cultural weapon groups and favored weapon skills would be gone. Instead, each culture would get a favored weapon within one of the weapon skills. Starting weapon skills would be as follows:

Bardings: Bow-2/Spear-1/Dagger-1 (or) Sword-2/Spear-1/Dagger-1, Favored Weapon: Great Bow
Beornings: Axe-2/Spear-1/Dagger-1 (or) Spear-2/Axe-1/Dagger-1, Favored Weapon: Great Spear
Dwarves: Axe-2/Sword-1/Dagger-1 (or) Axe-2/Bow-1/Dagger-1, Favored Weapon: Mattock
Elves: Spear-2/Sword-1/Dagger-1 (or) Bow-2/Sword-1/Dagger-1, Favored Weapon: Bow
Hobbits: Sword-2/Bow-1/Dagger-1 (or) Bow-2/Sword-1/Dagger-1, Favored Weapon: Short Sword or Small Bow
Woodmen: Bow-2/Axe-1/Dagger-1 (or) Axe-2/Spear-1/Dagger-1, Favored Weapon: Long-hafted Axe

Weapon Restrictions

Dwarves - Allowed to use clubs, staffs, daggers, short swords, swords, hatchets, axes, dwarven axes (dwarven version of long-hafted axe), mattocks (which could be skinned as a dwarven 2-handed axe), spears, small bows, bows. Note that Great Axe has been removed as this should be too big for them to use (for the same reason they can't use Great Spears and Great Bows).

Hobbits - Allowed to use clubs, staffs, daggers, short swords, hatchets, axes (only if used 2-handed), spears (only if used 2-handed), and small bows. Note that bows have been replaced with small bows (described below). Note also that axes and spears (both Enc 2 weapons) can only be used 2-handed.

Weapon List

Make following changes to Weapon List:

Brawling: Damage 1, Edge -, Injury -, Enc -
Improvised Weapon: Damage 2, Edge -, Injury -, Enc - , Can be thrown, (*Change: +1 damage to distinguish fists)
Club: Damage 3, Edge G, Injury 12, Enc 1, Wound counts as Knock-back instead, (New Weapon)
Staff (2H): Damage 5, Edge G, Injury 14, Enc 2, Wound counts as Knock-back instead, (New Weapon)
Dagger: Damage 3, Edge G, Injury 12, Enc 0, Can be thrown
Hatchet: Damage 4, Edge G, Injury 14, Enc 1, Can be thrown, (New Weapon)
Axe: Damage 5, Edge G, Injury 18, Enc 2
Long-hafted Axe (or Dwarven Axe) (1H): Damage 5, Edge G, Injury 18, Enc 3
Long-hafted Axe (or Dwarven Axe) (2H): Damage 7, Edge G, Injury 20, Enc 3
Great Axe (2H): Damage 9, Edge G, Injury 20, Enc 4
Mattock (2H): Damage 8, Edge 10, Injury 18, Enc 3
Spear: Damage 5, Edge 9, Injury 14, Enc 2, Can be thrown
Great Spear: Damage 8, Edge 9, Injury 16, Enc 3, +1 parry due to reach (*Change: -1 damage, -1 to Enc)
Short Sword: Damage 4, Edge 10, Injury 14, Enc 1, (*Change: -1 damage to distinguish from Sword)
Sword: Damage 5, Edge 10, Injury 16, Enc 2
Long Sword (1H): Damage 5, Edge 10, Injury 16, Enc 3
Long Sword (2H): Damage 7, Edge 10, Injury 18, Enc 3
Small Bow: Damage 4, Edge 10, Injury 12, Enc 1, Range: 10/20/30, (New Weapon) ( Requires 1 Defender)
Bow: Damage 5, Edge 10, Injury 14, Enc 2, Range: 15/25/35, (*Change: +1 Enc.) (Requires 1 Defender)
Great Bow: Damage 7, Edge 10, Injury 16, Enc 3, Range: 20/30/40 (Requires 2 Defenders)
Arrows: All bows Enc rating includes 12 arrows. Add another 12 arrows for 1 Enc.

Armor List

Make following changes to Armor List. Note, shields have been given +1 to Parry. Armors have had Enc reduced to 3 points per 1D of protection. Damage Reduction (DR) and Travel Load (Travel) have been added. Travel Load adds to Fatigue gained upon failed Fatigue Tests during Journeys.

Buckler: Enc 1, Parry +2, (Change: +1 Parry to reflect value of shields)
Shield: Enc 3, Parry +3, (Change: +1 Parry to reflect value of shields)
Great Shield: Enc 5, Parry +4 (Change: +1 Parry to reflect value of shields)
Leather 1D: Enc 3, Prot 1D, DR 0, Travel 0, (includes heavy clothing)
Leather 2D: Enc 6, Prot 2D, DR 0, Travel 0, (includes arming garments worn under mail)
Mail 3D: Enc 9, Prot 3D, DR 1, Travel 1
Mail 4D: Enc 12, Prot 4D, DR 2, Travel 2
Mail 5D: Enc 15, Prot 5D, DR 3, Travel 3
Helm: Enc 4, Prot +4, DR 0, Travel 0 (Change: Enc reduced to 4)
Cap: Enc 1, Prot +1, DR 0, Travel 0 (Change: Enc reduced to 1)

c.f. "JoeArcher"

Oh, also, when Hermes Serpent drops by this thread, don't take anything personally. He's really a sweet guy.

Hi Bocephas,

since you are asking for feedback, this is the first thing that I spotted:

there is almost no reason to use a Bow (compared to a Great Bow).
Maybe you can increase the enc of the Great Bow?

The weapon skill idea is interesting, I don't know if I'd bother but it works if you desire it to. That said, there are a few issues with your weapon chart:

1. Tracking arrows is way more granularity than the system is intended to have, I really wouldn't bother since it adds lots of bookkeeping for minimal additional fun.

2. And I must agree that upping Bow Encumbrance makes them even worse than they already are in comparison to Great Bows. Spears are probably better than them, despite higher Encumbrance, because they work with a shield, which bows do not. No need for additional penalties.

3. And on the subject of spears, dropping spear damage makes them really bad weapon choices. Extra Edge is nice, but is already paid for by their low Injury. For example, I've been playing in a TOR game with a spear-Elf for a while now, and he's rolled several Pierces with his thrown spear...and has yet to score a wound due to low Injury. That's a little atypical but way more common with spears and other Injury 14 weapons than any other weapon.

In fact, if you examine an unenhanced spear and an unenhanced sword in a combat calculator, they wind up pretty much even...so dropping one without dropping the other just makes spears a bad weapon.

Thank you for responding. Yes, I agree there is no reason to take a bow if you can use a great bow. The only exception would be for cultural reasons (like elves and their rewards). My proposed fix would be for small bows (hobbit bows) and regular bows (predominately elf bows) to require only one defender to use, while great bows would follow the RAW of requiring two defenders. This would make small and regular bows function more like skirmish weapons, while great bows would be more line-of-battle type weapons. Others have suggested giving great bows circumstantial penalties in tight spaces, woods, and underground.

First post updated to include defender house rule for bows

Deadmanwalking wrote:The weapon skill idea is interesting, I don't know if I'd bother but it works if you desire it to. That said, there are a few issues with your weapon chart:

1. Tracking arrows is way more granularity than the system is intended to have, I really wouldn't bother since it adds lots of bookkeeping for minimal additional fun.

2. And I must agree that upping Bow Encumbrance makes them even worse than they already are in comparison to Great Bows. Spears are probably better than them, despite higher Encumbrance, because they work with a shield, which bows do not. No need for additional penalties.

3. And on the subject of spears, dropping spear damage makes them really bad weapon choices. Extra Edge is nice, but is already paid for by their low Injury. For example, I've been playing in a TOR game with a spear-Elf for a while now, and he's rolled several Pierces with his thrown spear...and has yet to score a wound due to low Injury. That's a little atypical but way more common with spears and other Injury 14 weapons than any other weapon.

In fact, if you examine an unenhanced spear and an unenhanced sword in a combat calculator, they wind up pretty much even...so dropping one without dropping the other just makes spears a bad weapon.

Thanks for responding.

1. You may be right on arrows. I'm not sure an exact count is needed for most game sessions. But I think there might be circumstances where arrow count would be essential to the story (such as defending a position from wave after wave of attackers). I think I would only require arrow tracking under those conditions. But I still like the house rule as it gives a general idea of how many arrows a hero is carrying. It takes away the unknown.

2. I can see your point. But 1 Enc seems low for a bow and quiver full of arrows. Maybe 1 Enc for bow alone. The issue with the great bow can be solved with house rules like requiring only one defender when using regular bows (which I added to the list in my first post). As for regular spears, I think thrown spears (being one shot weapons) should be a little better than arrows. For this reason, I can see leaving their damage at 5.

3. Here is where I have a problem leaving Spear damage at 5. In my opinion, spears should not be equal with swords. Spears are cheap weapons typically used by common soldiers or cultures lacking the technology to mass produce swords and axes for their warriors. It's basically a dagger on a stick. The -1 damage was meant to put spears a little beneath swords. But then we have bows being damage 5 while spears are damage 4. I don't think that makes sense.

I just don't see spear damage being equal with swords, and I especially don't see great spear damage being equal with great axes. Maybe there's no fix for regular spears and equality with swords just has to be accepted. Maybe great spear damage could be lowered -1 and some other benefit could be given to them such as +2 to attack on first strike (to represent their reach over other weapons) or +1 to parry (to represent their defensive advantage of being able to keep the enemy out of your personal space).

Another option would be to reduce small bow / bow / great bow damages to 3/4/6. This would allow you to reduce spear damage to 4 and still keep thrown spears a little better than standard arrows. Then spears would be a little below swords, which makes more sense to me.

Updated chart. Resorted regular spear damage to 5. Added +1 parry bonus to great spear to represent reach advantage.

Bocephas wrote:Updated chart. Resorted regular spear damage to 5. Added +1 parry bonus to great spear to represent reach advantage.

In that case, I'd definitely up the Great Spear's Encumbrance back to 4. Otherwise it's too good, IMO.

I like having only 1 Enc difference between spears and great spears. I don't see a great spear being as encumbering as a great axe.

I think great axes are still better weapons, so I don't know if this makes great spears too good. But, you could drop another point of damage (make it damage 7) if you think the parry bonus is giving it too much.

I see great spears as being defensively advantageous, so I like the idea of giving it some kind of special non-damage bonus. I don't feel the same about one handed spears, as they seem more of a purely offensive (thrusting) weapon. But the 2H great spear would have parrying and distance-keeping capabilities that should be reflected with some kind of game mechanic.