Monster Combat House Rules

The unique One Ring rules set invites tinkering and secondary creation. Whilst The One Ring works brilliantly as written, we provide this forum for those who want to make their own home-brewed versions of the rules. Note that none of these should be taken as 'official'.
Michebugio
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Monster Combat House Rules

Post by Michebugio » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:05 pm

First Fact: Gandalf results (for players) and Eye results (for the opponents) on the Feat die are both an automatic success AND a Piercing blow. This means that against targets with a high Parry, your low-experience characters/minions will either completely miss the roll, or they will score Piercing blows almost without any in-between results.

For those of you familiar with D&D (3rd edition and afterwards), this is exactly the reason why the confirmation roll has been invented. In D&D, the confirmation roll is just another attack roll after the 20 has been scored to see if the roll is a critical hit or a simple auto-success. This actually makes sense, since your goblins may get a lucky shot against an evasive character, but a lucky shot which is also a critical hit, regardless of how difficult it was to hit the hero? It’s an all-or-nothing that doesn’t work, and the 3rd edition D&D developers that were trying to upgrade the 2nd edition, or AD&D (where there still wasn't such roll) knew that.

To avoid this, I've adopted this house rule:
Piercing blows and auto-success: when making attack rolls, if you get a Gandalf icon on your Feat die you have automatically succeeded, just like any other roll. To see if it’s also a Piercing Blow, though, compare the attack roll with the TN to hit the opponent, treating the Gandalf result on the Feat die as a 10. If the attack roll was enough to beat the TN, the attack is also a Piercing blow. If not, the attack roll is not considered a Piercing blow.
And of course, this is valid also for Eye results from adversaries' attack rolls.


Second Fact: the defensive ability of player characters doesn't scale up with Experience as much as the offensive capability of the monsters.
The most dangerous monsters tend to have an enormously high damage output, coupled with a high chance to hit. Rolling 3D+8, a Hill Troll Chieftain hits an average TN of 23.5, more than enough to hit practically every character. Just to say, a Woodman with Wits 7(10) fighting in a forest with a great shield in Defensive stance has a TN of 25, and that's the highest attainable TN ever.
This means essentially that big, solitary monsters will pretty much hit every time, dealing potentially devastating amounts of Damage (a Hill Troll Chieftain can dish out, in a single blow, up to 32 Damage!). There simply aren't characters who can withstand such power, neither by raising their Parry nor by raising their Endurance. Against highly dangerous monsters, it's just a matter of hitting them hard and fast, since nobody can actually "tank" them for long.
So what if those monsters can, or even must, split their Damage among players in close combat with them?
Damage spreading: monsters with the special ability Great Size that score a great success on an attack roll against a character must apply the additional Damage (i.e. their Attribute Level) to another character engaged in close combat with them, without any additional attack roll required, at the condition that the attack roll is high enough to beat the Parry TN of the second character. If the attack roll was an extraordinary success, the additional Damage must be applied on two other characters engaged in melee, with the same conditions as above. Monsters that also have the Horrible Strength special ability must apply the additional Damage from the ability to the original target of their attack. Similarly, Piercing blows are applied only to the original target of the attack.

If there are only two characters in melee, the targeted character suffers the base Damage of the attack on a normal or great success, and the base Damage plus the Attribute Level of the creature on an extraordinary success. The second character loses the Attribute Level of the creature in Endurance points only on a great or extraordinary success.

If there is only one character in melee, he suffers all the Damage by the creature.

Example: a Hill Troll Chieftain is engaged by four heroes, three in melee stances and one in Rearward stance. The Troll attacks one of the heroes in melee stance and rolls an extraordinary success! The roll is also high enough to beat the Parry TN of all the engaged characters. The targeted character loses 8 points of Endurance (the base Damage of the Troll's weapon), and the two others in close combat suffer 8 points of Endurance loss each (i.e. the Attribute Level of the creature). If the Troll also spends Hate to fuel his Horrible Strength, he can deal an additional 8 points of Damage to the original target character.
If one (or more) of the characters had a higher Parry TN than the attack roll, the Damage would be applied only to those characters who had a lower Parry TN than the attack roll.
In this way, battles against single, powerful creatures will last longer and will not render unconscious or cripple a single character while leaving others undamaged. Also, the Rally comrades combat task would be more effective against single creatures, since it affects all characters equally while by the RAW the damage against a single, big monster tends to concentrate on one or a few characters instead of being equally spread.

Comments and suggestions would be very much appreciated!

Glorelendil
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Re: Monster Combat House Rules

Post by Glorelendil » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:16 pm

Regarding your first point, somewhere in these forums I wrote about this paradox, but the short version is that I like it the way it is. Your rule would effectively reduce the value of armor as parry goes up. With high enough parry you won't need to worry much about pierces. RAW, on the other hand, doesn't let you put all your eggs in one basket. TOR encourages generalization, not specialization.
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Michebugio
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Re: Monster Combat House Rules

Post by Michebugio » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:35 pm

Glorelendil wrote:Your rule would effectively reduce the value of armor as parry goes up. With high enough parry you won't need to worry much about pierces. RAW, on the other hand, doesn't let you put all your eggs in one basket. TOR encourages generalization, not specialization.
That's an interesting point I didn't consider, and it effectively prevents min-maxers from exploiting the game (like having a sky-high Parry to avoid everything). I like this point of view.

Still, it upsets me that against hard-to-hit targets results have such an all or nothing pattern. Also, I like to imagine high Parry characters with light armor, while by the RAW they actually should worry more about getting Wounded than about getting Weary.

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Re: Monster Combat House Rules

Post by Glorelendil » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:47 pm

Michebugio wrote:while by the RAW they actually should worry more about getting Wounded than about getting Weary.
Yeah but it's only relative. The chance of getting Wounded doesn't actually increase...in fact it still decreases because Edge isn't always Eye...it's just that the chance of becoming Weary goes down faster.
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Majestic
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Re: Monster Combat House Rules

Post by Majestic » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:50 pm

Why a 10 for a Gamdalf/Eye? Though it skews a little in favor of the PCs, it would seem more natural to replace the symbols with the actual values that those symbols replace on a d12 . So a roll of a Gandalf becomes a 12 and one with an Eye of Sauron (for an adversary) an 11.
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Terisonen
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Re: Monster Combat House Rules

Post by Terisonen » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:19 pm

Problem with house rule is that they not get extensively tested like plain rule. Some seemingly light modification can have huge impact on the game mechanics. House rule IMO should stick where there is blind spot in rules.

Gandalf mean that whatever could happen, you still get a chance to down the huge villain, and that is very heroic.
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Re: Monster Combat House Rules

Post by Deadmanwalking » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:44 pm

Michebugio wrote:Also, I like to imagine high Parry characters with light armor, while by the RAW they actually should worry more about getting Wounded than about getting Weary.
For this issue specifically, the Encumbrance of Shields does a lot to help you. A Woodman with a Great Shield and a Long-Hafted Axe is sitting on 8 Encumbrance right there. Even with no other weapons, the very most he can manage without getting Wearied by any blow is a Mail shirt, and even that cuts it awfully close (6 Endurance loss before being Wearied at most). Elves have even less Endurance to play with if going the spear/great shield route, Hobbits have about the same margin if going sword/shield, and Beornings aiming for as much parry as possible are limited to Encumbrance 12. Frankly, I'd be shocked to see shield-using members of any of these cultures wearing anything heavier than a Leather Corselet unless Cunning Make is involved.

Barding Swordmasters, Men of the Lake sword/great shield fighters, and Dwarves going axe/shield can probably afford a mail shirt (though the first two less than the third...heck, a Dwarf might even be able to get away with a coat of mail), but they're pretty much the only ones, and that seems appropriate. Besides, of those, only the Barding goes above Parry 8, while some of the cultures in the previous paragraph can get to 13 or so, while all can manage at least a 10.

So...in short, unless they're willing to get Wearied by any hit to avoid ever getting Wounded (which is a bad idea...being Weary makes you easier to Wound)...this really isn't a big problem. Not unless people start using Cunning Make a whole lot, anyway. Which is cool and thematic for a hard to hit warrior to do...so that works out.

EDIT: Left out Dunedain and Elves of Rivendell. Dunedain have no way to get high Parry (they max at 8 with a Great Shield), and while High Elves do (they can max at 12), and can even afford a Mail Shirt with it (if barely...19 Encumbrance hurts)...that, too, seems appropriate. Descriptions of High Elf Warriors do tend to go on the 'glittering mail' end of the description spectrum...

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Indur Dawndeath
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Re: Monster Combat House Rules

Post by Indur Dawndeath » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:13 am

Remember that a Piercing blow is not an automatic Wound. So IMO there is no need for the confirmation roll. The Protection roll serves that purpose.
That being said, I see my players focus a lot on Parry, and it frustrates me that many weak monsters have only the EoS chance to hit.
If you House Rule is used I think the focus on Parry would increase even more. Everyone would carry great shields and no one would use two handed weapons...
My take on solving this is to apply the Moderately Hindered and Severely Hindered more often, such as when the players are outnumbered or in the terretory of the monster.


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Rocmistro
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Re: Monster Combat House Rules

Post by Rocmistro » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:19 pm

I have a thought/question.

I had reached a similar conclusion of doom when it came to "big baddies". Is it possible that heroes are simply not intended to engage such creatures in a stand-up fight until they are at the very top of their game?

In other words, maybe it's working as intended...
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Glorelendil
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Re: Monster Combat House Rules

Post by Glorelendil » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:29 pm

Rocmistro wrote:I have a thought/question.

I had reached a similar conclusion of doom when it came to "big baddies". Is it possible that heroes are simply not intended to engage such creatures in a stand-up fight until they are at the very top of their game?

In other words, maybe it's working as intended...
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