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How many of that legion would turn to the D&Dark Side? That troubles me every night... like a winged creature out of Ravenloft.

Falenthal wrote:How many of that legion would turn to the D&Dark Side? That troubles me every night... like a winged creature out of Ravenloft.

Funny, while writing my post I was thinking about Apple's strategy back in the 80's and 90's, which was to give computers to elementary schools, with the idea that the kids would grow up to be Mac fans. And they did. But Microsoft had the even better strategy of marketing to (and designing for) IT managers. It turned out that in the business world IT Fiat trumped Employee Preference.

And as a result, most of the world turned to the Dark Side.

Glorelendil wrote:

Falenthal wrote: Such an "evolving set of rules" would be cool to have for parents who want to share their passion with their kids.

It might be impractically complex, but I like the idea...at least as an intellectual exercise.

... I mentioned in my earlier post the Lone Wolf game and a similar kind of approach is what C7 are doing there; I was involved in some of the dev for the game so had a bit of involvement in it. It'd be relatively straightforward from this to give each rule an "age rating" and group them accordingly.

I'll probably be back a little later to get all Piaget up in here, but first a bit of cold water.

Doing something like this as a boxed set is pretty much a foregone conclusion. That means it's no longer a book, and thus it falls into "Toys & Games". Why does that matter? Due to regulatory/child safety considerations, marketing to under-13 means getting tested for safety, a time-consuming and somewhat expensive process. While the outcome of the safety testing would never be in doubt, C7 would still have to weight how many more sales a lower age rating would garner for this (still theoretical) project versus the expensive/risk* of the testing.

Now sidebars to the effect of "If you have younger kids wanting to play..." might violate the spirit of the law but leave the letter of the law intact.

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* Not risk of failure, but risk of it throwing a wrench into the timing. No one wants to be the hotest selling thing in mid-January when you could have been the hotest selling thing in mid-December.

zedturtle wrote:I'll probably be back a little later to get all Piaget up in here, but first a bit of cold water.

Doing something like this as a boxed set is pretty much a foregone conclusion. That means it's no longer a book, and thus it falls into "Toys & Games". Why does that matter? Due to regulatory/child safety considerations, marketing to under-13 means getting tested for safety, a time-consuming and somewhat expensive process. While the outcome of the safety testing would never be in doubt, C7 would still have to weight how many more sales a lower age rating would garner for this (still theoretical) project versus the expensive/risk* of the testing.

Now sidebars to the effect of "If you have younger kids wanting to play..." might violate the spirit of the law but leave the letter of the law intact.

- - - - - - -

* Not risk of failure, but risk of it throwing a wrench into the timing. No one wants to be the hotest selling thing in mid-January when you could have been the hotest selling thing in mid-December.

Or just do it as a book not a box...

Rich H wrote:It'd be relatively straightforward from this to give each rule an "age rating" and group them accordingly.

I have to respectfully disagree that this would be straightforward. At least, doing so meaningfully. Rules/concepts that we as adults might feel are "too complex" or "easy to grasp" might actually be ("probably are"?) the inverse for children at various developmental stages.

Glorelendil wrote:

zedturtle wrote:Doing something like this as a boxed set is pretty much a foregone conclusion. That means it's no longer a book, and thus it falls into "Toys & Games".

Or just do it as a book not a box...

LWAG is a boxed set so C7 are already riding that particular horse.

Oh yeah, there's nothing particularly wrong with doing a boxed set. Just explaining why it might be (financially) better to make it age 13+ instead of age 7+.

And if you did as a book, you lose all the coolness factor of opening the box and seeing all the bits and bobs.

Glorelendil wrote:I have to respectfully disagree that this would be straightforward. At least, doing so meaningfully. Rules/concepts that we as adults might feel are "too complex" or "easy to grasp" might actually be ("probably are"?) the inverse for children at various developmental stages.

I know teachers that could do this, with no significant problems.

As a little point of interest (maybe) 25 years ago I remember being in the sixth form and helping some of my then teachers dissect* D&D Basic and Expert into 'age bands' and then added bits of AD&D onto it so they could run it for different age groups of kids with learning difficulties. I appreciate things have developed in both RPGs and education since then but teaching techniques, if anything, have gotten much better since then (at least in the UK, can't speak for US) but if my teachers back then could do something with real success (as it got really popular with kids outside the initial groups they primarily did the work for, which was great) then it should be relatively straightforward now. Having mentioned in passing, what my old teachers did, to teacher pals now they've all nodded sagely, quoted various cognitive techniques and the like, but didn't seem overly impressed - ie, "yeah, Rich, no big deal". Least that's how I read their reactions and is why I think it'd be 'relatively straightforward'.

* Literally. The buggers took apart my rulebooks to photocopy and 'rebuild' their own rules pamphlets.

zedturtle wrote:And if you did as a book, you lose all the coolness factor of opening the box and seeing all the bits and bobs.

I think this is incredibly important from a learning perspective and from a kids perception - lots of different (and interesting!) elements to play with and rules etc divided up into smaller, manageable, less intimidating booklets rather than one big rulebook. That kind of thing is absolutely critical in engaging kids in this kind of thing, surely. Back to the thing that I did in the sixth form; it's exactly what the teacher's did - creating pamphlets of information/rules/what-have-you to keep the attention of the kids and let them focus on bitesize chunks at a time.

An idea I had last night... make individual booklets for each of the four backgrounds ( going back to the idea of including creation rules now). Each book would hold your hand through making a character of the culture and also have a "What You Know About Breeland" section. That way, players can engage in simultaneous character creation and also everyone would have a different set of knowledge (the differences between Bree-hobbits and Bree-men would be especially fun to write).