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My current campaign is of maximum recommended size (six) and so tends to drag on rather gloriously in the combat department. They enjoy it immensely, and so do I. However, the result is that Advancement Points can be at a premium for a session as gauging what exactly happens when someone makes a roll unrelated to Intimidating or Rallying tends to be difficult and unpredictable.

So I sat down today and hammered out one new ability for each stance (with some inspiration from the Additional Rules Supplement found elsewhere on this forum.)

Let me know what you guys think.

Note: HAAL stands for Highest Adversary's Attribute Level

Forward Stance: Assault - Where no advantage exists, you make one. Using Athletics or Awe at TN 10+HAAL, you spend the turn forcibly maneuvering the enemy into positions of weakness using displays of raw force...or by simply employing your body as a battering ram. This ability functions in the same way as the initial Battle roll at the start of a combat to determine advantage. These must be spent immediately and apply to the character's very next combat roll.

Open Stance: Tactical Direction - The player may spend a turn to roll a TN 10+HAAL Search or Insight check as they visually scour the enemy lines, looking for holes, weaknesses, and tactical flaws. Doing so successfully will lower the fellowship's attacking TN on all enemies by 1, 2 for a Great, 3 for an Extraordinary. This effect lasts until the start of the player's next turn.

Defensive Stance 1: Taunt Enemy: A player may use their turn to make a TN 10+Target AL Persuade or Song roll in order to goad an enemy into exposing its greatest vulnerabilities. The selected enemy suffers a negative to its Protection rolls equal to the player's Heart rating for a number of rounds equal to the degree of success to a maximum of three. A failed roll returns 1 point of Hate to the creature. A failed roll with an Eye returns 1 Hate to all enemies present.

Defensive Stance 2: Retrieve Weapon - A player who has lost or thrown a weapon may enter Defensive Stance and spend a turn there to reclaim it. If an enemy forcefully impedes them, they must pass a TN 10+HAAL Battle check in order to succeed.

Rearward: Surprise Attack - A player may roll their Stealth or Hunting at TN 10+HAAL to quickly fade out of sight of the enemy as he prepares to outflank them. When doing so, the player must also switch to a melee weapon. They should also note the degree of success on their first roll. On their next turn, the player must take a Forward Stance attack against any foe they choose. On a successful Stealth or Hunting roll, the player raises his weapon's damage by 2. On a Great Success, he also lowers his weapon's Edge by 2 for the attack. Finally, on an Extraordinary Success, he additionally increases the degree of his success on his attack by one.

I quite like these at first glance. Will have to think about the mechanical side of things a little but they look pretty sound and are not too complicated.

I think Assault should be a bit of a gamble - The target should target you with its next attack, then it could go horribly wrong if you get clobbered by the guy before your next turn, which I think is balancing the fact you get bonus dice. Can you gift them to other players?

Will have a think about the others.

poosticks7 wrote:
I think Assault should be a bit of a gamble - The target should target you with its next attack, then it could go horribly wrong if you get clobbered by the guy before your next turn, which I think is balancing the fact you get bonus dice. Can you gift them to other players?

I already see it as sort of a gamble because you're using a turn in Forward to try something that neither damages nor routs the enemy...that can be scary enough. Plus, the die boost is meant to be used immediately to illustrate that the tide of battle flows quickly. The Battle check at the beginning of combat is a bit more handy because it lets you take advantage of terrain you noticed at the outset. This check is used to push enemies into bad positions, one they might quickly notice and rectify.

And yes they can be gifted to other players. One Advantage can be given to any one player, they simply have to spend it on their next turn. It's intended to be a combo-setup, basically.

Or it could restore Hate to the enemy, even past the maximum. To illustrate their rage with being literally pushed around.

There have been some other threads (use the Palantir) about new combat tasks. My favorites have been:
1) Some version of "taunt", but with a cost Defensive
2) The equivalent of "Great Leap" for adversaries; i.e. engage a ranged adversary in close combat. I think I called my version "Break the Line" or something like that. Forward
3) Hinder, Harass, or Impede: Give up your attack for the purpose of imposing negative modifiers on an enemy, sort of like Baldor does in the first scene of Tales from Wilderland. Open.
4) Dodge or Evade: give up your own attack and go pure defense. (Impose Disadvantage on attacker?) All stances

And here's maybe a new version (of an old idea): skip your turn and roll either Battle or Stealth (or Riddle? or Insight?); every success becomes a bonus die that can be used on your next attack (not saved for later, and not given away).

Glorelendil wrote:There have been some other threads (use the Palantir) about new combat tasks. My favorites have been:
1) Some version of "taunt", but with a cost Defensive
2) The equivalent of "Great Leap" for adversaries; i.e. engage a ranged adversary in close combat. I think I called my version "Break the Line" or something like that. Forward
3) Hinder, Harass, or Impede: Give up your attack for the purpose of imposing negative modifiers on an enemy, sort of like Baldor does in the first scene of Tales from Wilderland. Open.
4) Dodge or Evade: give up your own attack and go pure defense. (Impose Disadvantage on attacker?) All stances

And here's maybe a new version (of an old idea): skip your turn and roll either Battle or Stealth (or Riddle? or Insight?); every success becomes a bonus die that can be used on your next attack (not saved for later, and not given away).

While that's all well and good, I did search for more options and what I found does not fulfill my niche desire of filling out what skills may be concretely used in combat. That was the whole point of this, to open up a range of solidified ideas that could make Face Characters and stealthy Thief types more viable in combat beyond their ability to sing or scare.

The problem with what I was finding and the Additional Rules Supp was that there was a whole crapload of overlap with...mostly just Battle and Athletics. I have players who like fulfilling the Intimidate and Inspire roles almost as much as they enjoy punching things. I wanted to give everyone a chance at having a secondary combat role based on the diversity of their skills.

Psychomachia wrote:

Glorelendil wrote:There have been some other threads (use the Palantir) about new combat tasks. My favorites have been:
1) Some version of "taunt", but with a cost Defensive
2) The equivalent of "Great Leap" for adversaries; i.e. engage a ranged adversary in close combat. I think I called my version "Break the Line" or something like that. Forward
3) Hinder, Harass, or Impede: Give up your attack for the purpose of imposing negative modifiers on an enemy, sort of like Baldor does in the first scene of Tales from Wilderland. Open.
4) Dodge or Evade: give up your own attack and go pure defense. (Impose Disadvantage on attacker?) All stances

And here's maybe a new version (of an old idea): skip your turn and roll either Battle or Stealth (or Riddle? or Insight?); every success becomes a bonus die that can be used on your next attack (not saved for later, and not given away).

While that's all well and good, I did search for more options and what I found does not fulfill my niche desire of filling out what skills may be concretely used in combat. That was the whole point of this, to open up a range of solidified ideas that could make Face Characters and stealthy Thief types more viable in combat beyond their ability to sing or scare.

I just didn't write out the details about how those things would work, or try to convert them. But I totally agree that I'd like to see Combat Tasks require skill tests E.g., Great Leap might require Athletics, Taunt might require...what's the opposite of Courtesy? And the last unnamed one works great with Stealth. I could see Riddle being used for Harass, confusing the enemy and imposing penalties.

Glorelendil wrote:But I totally agree that I'd like to see Combat Tasks require skill tests E.g., Great Leap might require Athletics, Taunt might require...what's the opposite of Courtesy?

Awe would seem to fit best.

You should not make a long list of actions that players need to chose from.
Why not tell them, that you encourage them to be inventive. No need for house rule, it is within the RAW.

One player could say: "i'd like to use my Stealth to ambush the Enemy", and you as the LM decides that he will roll two FD and take the best if he succeeds or whatever you find suitable.
Another player might say: "I'll test my song skill, to mock the Goblin Archers and draw them into close combat"

Let the players come up with the actions, instead of making a finite list.
They spend the round acomplishing some test instead of an attack.

I will try this myself next time we play, and see how it goes!

Indur Dawndeath wrote:You should not make a long list of actions that players need to chose from.
Why not tell them, that you encourage them to be inventive. No need for house rule, it is within the RAW.

One player could say: "i'd like to use my Stealth to ambush the Enemy", and you as the LM decides that he will roll two FD and take the best if he succeeds of whatever you find suitable.
Another player might say: "I'll test my song skill, to mock the Goblin Archers and drastisk them into close combat"

Let the players come up with the actions, instead of making a finite list.
They spend the round acomplishing some test instead of an attack.

I will try this myself next time we play, and see how it goes!

Because I've been encouraging them for two years now and they simply prefer to play it more like a rollplaying game most of the time. This and ALL RPGs.

I've been GMing roughly the same group all that time and they prefer concrete, steadfast rules to seat-of-the-pants play. The occasional, epic RP may come up, but with my group, it's far from the norm. As much as I would like to think that it's truly all about the story...yeah, it's not. Not for us, at least.

At the end of the day, this was meant for groups like that, who emphasize the GAME portion of RPG. Games have to have tangible, solid rules in order to operate well.

Well, I could see a middle ground, that combines both flexible, narrative roleplaying with concrete roll-playing:

Improvised Combat Task

• Propose what you would like to attempt, what skill it will use, and perhaps what stance is required. If the LM agrees, you forego your attack for the round and instead use your skill.

• The number of extra successes (if any) become bonus dice that must be used on the following round.

• In cases where the desired effect is merely combat advantage, then all success convert to bonus dice.

• The recipient of the dice could be another character, but this must be declared beforehand, and must be appropriate to the proposed action.

• The recipient could also be an adversary, in which case the bonus dice are deducted from the adversary's next attack

.