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Blubbo Baggins wrote:I think Rich has something here..

Just cutting for brevity but like I said earlier you would need to factor into the target thresholds that you are now adding +1 when Valour/Wisdom was greater than 3 and +1 if using an item of renown to EA on every EYE result. Personally, I'm not sure those adding to EA all the time is desirable and would like to see what Glorelendil comes up with.

Glorelendil wrote:Well, that's still more variation (for the Ranger) than the current system where it's 100% on every Eye. The probability starts off rather low (for a brand new Woodman using a skill with 2 pips in it, for example), and gradually reaches 100%.

That's true, I wasn't looking at starting characters more higher powered ones to see what they looked like.

Glorelendil wrote:Even in a party where they all need "higher than 6" (or the rule could be "equal to or higher than"), you still need 6 Eyes to be rolled, which is more than it would be currently.

I think you'd be better going with equal or higher, that way a High Elf with high Valour/Wisdom still has a chance (albeit minute) of avoiding raising EA. Mind you, that's still blown out of the water if they have an item of renown. Perhaps cap the value at 6 so there's always a chance?

Glorelendil wrote:As for naming, maybe something referring to "visibility" or "obviousness" (those concepts, not those specific words)

Hmmm, will have a think about that. Maybe combine it with Shadow or Eye.

It's also worth considering that some abilities raise Eye on their own.

For example, many high elves (because Skill of the Eldar is a GREAT first choice for any Noldor) raise Eye automatically on G Runes too.

So the high elf is going to hit 6 very quickly, either through failure (eye) or success (G Rune)

Angelalex242 wrote:It's also worth considering that some abilities raise Eye on their own.

For example, many high elves (because Skill of the Eldar is a GREAT first choice for any Noldor) raise Eye automatically on G Runes too.

Yes, those and other magic. It's why I really think keeping the Threshold numbers similar to the RAW would be desirable. Mind you, the amount that they add to EA could be changed but then you've gotta start asking is it really getting any benefit trying to shoehorn such house rules into an existing system.

I'm personally happy with the EoM rules as they are because I only have a group of 4 players but can see how they can be problematic for larger groups. It's nice to look at such things though - if only from a theoretical perspective rather than practical reasons...

So...as an example, my online party.

There's my high elf with Skill of the Eldar and Beauty of the Stars.

There's the Ranger with his famous bow.

There's the Dwarf with his famous mattock (and potentially broken spells)

There's the new Wood Elf Archer who just might want Stinging Arrow and wood elf magic.

So...

If the threshold is 6...

"Yawn. There goes another one."
"Didn't we just do this 3 hours ago?"
"Yep."

Angelalex242 wrote:So...as an example, my online party.

There's my high elf with Skill of the Eldar and Beauty of the Stars.

There's the Ranger with his famous bow.

There's the Dwarf with his famous mattock (and potentially broken spells)

There's the new Wood Elf Archer who just might want Stinging Arrow and wood elf magic.

So...

If the threshold is 6...

"Yawn. There goes another one."
"Didn't we just do this 3 hours ago?"
"Yep."

I think you're combining proposals. The "fixed Threshold of 6" idea would not be compatible with the "multiple points on one Eye" idea.

Also, if each of your party members has Wisdom or Valour of 4 or greater your starting Eye Awareness is 13, which means in Shadow Lands you're permanently above threshold, and in Dark Lands you're already only a single roll away from "Yawn". And that's with a party of four.

Huh. It probably helps none of the party has hit valor or wisdom 4 yet. My high elf is the highest in both with 3. Others have been advancing more slowly that way.

But we typically start at about 8 and have to get to 16 to trigger.

Angelalex242 wrote:Huh. It probably helps none of the party has hit valor or wisdom 4 yet. My high elf is the highest in both with 3. Others have been advancing more slowly that way.

But we typically start at about 8 and have to get to 16 to trigger.

Wow....two famous weapons and nobody has Valour or Wisdom 4. Lucky Treasure rolls....

I like Rich's idea of starting at zero and adding the cultural values. That keeps it close to RAW and makes Revelations something special.

What if there was a fixed threshold for Eye Awareness.
It could be based on the company size plus a fixed number (+10?)
or possibly the company size multiplied by a factor (*3?)

Then Eye Awareness was increased based on multiple factors:
Culture: Hobbits=0, Men, Silvan Elves, Dwarves=1, Dúnedain=2, High Elves=3
Valour or Wisdom > 4 = +1
Famouos Weapon or Item = +1
Region: Free Lands, Border Lands=0, Wild lands=+1, Shadow Lands=+2, Dark Lands =+3
Add a point of Eye Awareness with each gain of a shadow point
Add a point when magic is used

So a High Elf with a famous sword and a wisdom of 5 rolling an Eye in a Wild Land would add 6 points to the eye awareness for the company (3+1+1+1). A Hobbit with a Famous mail shirt and a valour of 5 rolling an eye in a Dark land would generate 5 points of Eye Awareness. (0+1+1+3)

I think this incorporates all of the components in the RAW, it just factors the region into the generation of points rather than using it to set the threshold.

Thoughts?