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Of course if you wanted a chance for entering a new region to trigger a Revelation episode, you could do something along the lines of rolling to see if a place is blighted or not. Roll a number of dice based on the region and add shadow awareness points on an Eye. That could still push a group over the threshold even if the threshold was not based on the region.

Wbweather wrote: If you look at the math for a maxed out hobbit vs a maxed out High Elf rolling 5 Eyes in a Dark region, the hobbit would generate 25 points of shadow awareness, while the elf would generate 40. Sure the elf generates 60% more SA, but that is not infinitely more.

Maxed-out Noldor may only produce 60% more Eye Awareness than a maxed-out Hobbit, but before they get magic weapons and high Wisdom/Valour the Noldor will produce vastly more points. Or take two characters who start out the same: if one of them happens to get a magic weapon and reaches Wisdom: 4 first, he suddenly will start generating far more Eye Awareness. I'm not saying that's game-breaking, but it's very different from RAW, and it's a situation I find unsatisfactory.

That's what makes this problem interesting: it's relatively easy to solve for some scenarios, e.g. "new heroes in safer zones" but hard to solve for all of them simultaneously.

In my proposal a group of 4 starting players in Wild lands (no hobbits, valour and wisdom <4, no famous weapons or armor) would generate enough points for a revelation episode after 6 Eye rolls. A group of 8 High level characters in Dark Lands( all Dúnedain with a famous weapon and valour or wisdom >4) would generate enough points for a Revelation Episode after 4 Eyes. I don't see that as too unbalanced.

I'm not sure it's unbalanced, either, and a 50% increase in Revelation Episode frequency as heroes progress from novices in easy zones to veterans in dangerous zones may be perfectly fine, but again it's dramatically different from RAW. I was assuming the goal is for frequency to progress from "hardly ever" to "quite often" over the course of a campaign (whatever that means in terms of actual numbers).

By the way, one design choice for my proposed funky rules that require looking at the Success dice when Eyes are rolled is between "if any Success die is below X" and "if no Success dice are above X". In the former case, the odds get tougher as skills improve, in the latter they get easier. So different impact on odds, but also on incentives to use weak skills. I sort of like option A, just because introducing a trade-off, a double-edged sword, to using your better skills feels appropriate to the fiction.

Glorelendil wrote:I'm not sure it's unbalanced, either, and a 50% increase in Revelation Episode frequency as heroes progress from novices in easy zones to veterans in dangerous zones may be perfectly fine, but again it's dramatically different from RAW. I was assuming the goal is for frequency to progress from "hardly ever" to "quite often" over the course of a campaign (whatever that means in terms of actual numbers).

I'm not sure that RAW produces this frequency of "hardly ever" to "quite often", though. Remember that the rules for EA suggest that things become much more dangerous for the PCs after Sauron's revelation in 2951.

Part of the proposed alternate rules could just factor that date into things, where in 2951 (and after) the frequency is anywhere from "fairly often" to "quite often", and before 2951 it's "hardly ever" or "never". I imagine this would be the normal progression for PCs that start in TOR's default setting and have PCs grow from zero to hero over time.

Majestic wrote:

Glorelendil wrote:I'm not sure it's unbalanced, either, and a 50% increase in Revelation Episode frequency as heroes progress from novices in easy zones to veterans in dangerous zones may be perfectly fine, but again it's dramatically different from RAW. I was assuming the goal is for frequency to progress from "hardly ever" to "quite often" over the course of a campaign (whatever that means in terms of actual numbers).

I'm not sure that RAW produces this frequency of "hardly ever" to "quite often", though. Remember that the rules for EA suggest that things become much more dangerous for the PCs after Sauron's revelation in 2951.

Part of the proposed alternate rules could just factor that date into things, where in 2951 (and after) the frequency is anywhere from "fairly often" to "quite often", and before 2951 it's "hardly ever" or "never". I imagine this would be the normal progression for PCs that start in TOR's default setting and have PCs grow from zero to hero over time.

Unless the campaign itself starts after 2951, and the party has no Noldor or Rangers.

Alright, here's an idea... inspired by the way that Shadow works.

Every hero has an Eye Awareness score and a personal Hunt Threshold. This Hunt Threshold is equal to:

Mirkwood Elf: 12
Middle Man: 14
Hobbit: 16
Dwarf: 14
Ranger: 12
High Elf: 10

At the beginning of an Adventuring Phase, your personal Eye Awareness starts at your Permanent Shadow score. Each Eye rolled on a Common Skill task increases Eye Awareness by one. After 2951, entering a Shadow or Dark region also increases Eye Awareness by one. Each region can only ever add one point per session, however. So if you enter a region, leave it, and enter it again in the same session you only add to Eye Awareness the first time.

When your Eye Awareness hits your Hunt Threshold, you trigger a Revelation Episode for the company. After the Revelation Episode, your Eye Awareness resets to your Permanent Shadow score.

- - - - -

What do people think?

The only negative I can see is that it could easily produce multiple revelation episodes close together if one could be triggered by each companion.

Well, with that version...

Why have company Revelations? Not all moves of the enemy have to target the whole company. Rather, if there's individual awareness, revelations should likewise become individual.

Wbweather wrote:The only negative I can see is that it could easily produce multiple revelation episodes close together if one could be triggered by each companion.

I considered having a revelation reset all scores. But I doubt that the rate of Eyes would be so consistent. Could be wrong, though... it might take some modeling/playtesting.

Angelalex242 wrote:Well, with that version...

Why have company Revelations? Not all moves of the enemy have to target the whole company. Rather, if there's individual awareness, revelations should likewise become individual.

I would argue that while it may be the individual that triggers Sauron's attention, it is the company as a whole that he become attentive to. Hazards make sense for individuals, since they can be flavoured as 'the guide is moving on ahead and gets extra endurance loss from ranging through rough terrain trying to find his way'. Revelation episodes are more like Sauron takes a special notice in what you are doing, and sends something to hamper you. Zedturtle's idea simply shows how a single person can attract the attention of Sauron to a group, kind of like how Gandalf (by himself) attracted attention to the Fellowship by using his fire magic.