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Inspired by the discussion in the main forum about potential conflicts in Eye of Mordor rules, here's my first attempt at a rewrite. The main downside is that it's a bit more complex; instead of just a binary "was it an Eye or isn't it?" it requires some more thought to tell if Eye Awareness increases.

Ok, I think I came up with a solution, building from the ground up.

Requirements:
- Revelation frequency is a function of: zone, fellowship size, and relative "power" of each hero (which in turn is a function of Wisdom/Valour, culture, and powerful artifacts carried)
- Starting score can never be equal or greater than threshold
- Conversely, the gap never becomes overly large
- Changing zones cannot, by itself, trigger a Revelation Episode
- No additional dice rolls

Proposal:

1) Eye Awareness always starts at zero, and always has the same threshold. Let's say 10, but determining the "right" number would require some testing/simulation/theorycraft. (Alternately, this number could be a variable, but I'm reserving that mechanic in case a requirement arises that isn't addressed by the other rules.)

2) On every skill test, an Eye of Sauron adds 1 to Eye Awareness if the roll itself is below a certain, secondary TN

3) The TN is a function of zone, and the power of the individual who made the roll. (See below)

In other words, an EoS might add to Eye Awareness, but it might not, depending on how good/bad the Success dice were.

Here is an example of how the TN might be calculated (I'm not sure this is the right formula; just a first pass. Again, needs testing/theorycrafting):
- Base TN is the TN of the zone, minus 10. (E.g. 6 for Wild Lands, 16 minus 10)
- Noldor add +4 to the TN, Rangers add +2, Hobbits subtract 2
- +2 for each Famous Arms or Armour (or, alternately, +1 per activated Enchanted Quality)
- +2 if either Wisdom or Valour is 4 or higher, +4 if either Wisdom or Valour is 6
- potentially other modifiers as well

With the above rules, a Ranger with Wisdom 4 and an enchanted sword traveling in Shadow Lands would face a secondary TN of 16 on every skill roll. Thus, any skill roll with an EoS fail against TN 16 (regardless of whether it succeeded or failed against it's intended purpose) would increase Eye Awareness.

Unused Mechanics:
- The amount that Eye Awareness is increased doesn't have to be 1
- As mentioned above, the Hunt Threshold could vary

Thoughts? Too much overhead?

My initial gut response is that a secondary TN to compare skill rolls etc to is something that I'd forget to apply (quite easily) and feels clunky and overcooked to me.

I was wondering if another option, like you alluded to, would be for Eye results to increase Eye Awareness by different amount that way Ranger and Noldor increase it and (as a suggestion) Hobbits don't at all. All other races are somewhere in between.

Rich H wrote:My initial gut response is that a secondary TN to compare skill rolls etc to is something that I'd forget to apply (quite easily) and feels clunky and overcooked to me.

Yeah, I think so too. Just experimenting.

I was wondering if another option, like you alluded to, would be for Eye results to increase Eye Awareness by different amount that way Ranger and Noldor increase it and (as a suggestion) Hobbits don't at all. All other races are somewhere in between.

It may be a useful mechanic, but it doesn't address the core problem of RAW not scaling nicely.

Glorelendil wrote:

Rich H wrote:I was wondering if another option, like you alluded to, would be for Eye results to increase Eye Awareness by different amount that way Ranger and Noldor increase it and (as a suggestion) Hobbits don't at all. All other races are somewhere in between.

It may be a useful mechanic, but it doesn't address the core problem of RAW not scaling nicely.

True... Wonder if you could have the Threshold scale then to accommodate high or lower numbers of PCs in a fellowship. So, let's toss the ball around, that way:

1) More PCs would produce more EYE rolls than a smaller group of PCs

2) But the larger group would have a greater Threshold than the smaller one

3) Each PC, dependant on culture (and other elements like high Valour, famous weapons, etc), would increase Eye Awareness by varying amounts

4) So, for equal sized groups, ones with Ranger or High Elves of renown would raise their Eye Awareness quicker than those with other races

... ?

Would it be too simplistic to set the threshold at the company's starting value at the beginning of an adventure plus an amount based on the region (+8 for Dark, +10 for Shadow, etc) ignoring company size completely. Then follow RAW for gaining awareness. That way there would always be a gap before the Revelation episodes kick in. Or perhaps you already discussed this in the other thread.

I like what you are trying to accomplish, but it feels very cumbersome. I prefer simplicity whenever possible.

One basic thing you could do is tie raising Eye awareness to rolling an Eye of Sauron and succeeding at the roll anyways. That would make more experienced heroes more likely to raise the value, and less experienced adventure less likely to raise the value.

Have most heroes raise Eye awareness by one, hobbits raise it by zero, and Rangers and high elves by two.

If the desire is for several variables (culture, enchanted gear, Wisdom/Valour, and zone) to all result in more frequent Revelation Episodes, then at least one of the following must be true:
1) The number of points (the "gap") must decrease as a function of those variables
2) The frequency of point accrual must increase as a function of those variables

The problem with merely adjusting the gap is that you get a trade-off between having gaps too large at low "levels" (that is, Revelation Episodes never occur) or the gap going to zero too easily (which is where we are now.) This is especially true when the mechanics are all based on linear functions, which they currently are.

Another approach would be to attack the gap from the other side... create new opportunities (Undertakings, maybe?) to affect the Hunt Threshold. Make the gap something that has to be actively managed for higher end heroes....

Glorelendil wrote: The problem with merely adjusting the gap is that you get a trade-off between having gaps too large at low "levels" (that is, Revelation Episodes never occur) or the gap going to zero too easily (which is where we are now.) This is especially true when the mechanics are all based on linear functions, which they currently are.

This is true, but to me it makes sense that a small group would attract much less attention than a sizable group. The fellowship of 9 had several "Revelation" episodes. Broken up in groups of 2 and 3, they didn't see nearly as much of an issue.

Wbweather wrote:

Glorelendil wrote: The problem with merely adjusting the gap is that you get a trade-off between having gaps too large at low "levels" (that is, Revelation Episodes never occur) or the gap going to zero too easily (which is where we are now.) This is especially true when the mechanics are all based on linear functions, which they currently are.

This is true, but to me it makes sense that a small group would attract much less attention than a sizable group. The fellowship of 9 had several "Revelation" episodes. Broken up in groups of 2 and 3, they didn't see nearly as much of an issue.

Which if you're going to use the mechanic of EYE results increasing Eye Awareness is handled due to the fact that a larger group will simply roll more EYE results so will therefore reach the Threshold quicker than a smaller group (all other elements being equal).