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Coming from a discussion in the "normal" forum...

Related to the question about how to remove Shadow, I only changed the mechanic for the High Elves, which I don't like and don't quite understand flavour-wise:
Now, whenever a High Elf can reduce his Shadow score, he just reduces half (rounding up) points.

This way I consider that the Rivendell elves need to play music, sing song and compose poetry (Use Song for Heal Corruption Undertaking) double as any other culture.

Not that hobbits would ever acquire quite the Elvish appetite for music and poetry and tales. They seem to like them as much as food, or more.

Tolwen wrote: That sounds like a sensible approach to me - both in terms of game-related questions and flavour/Arda Lore. That could be even made finer grained if you go for greater detail, but the basic idea of making Hope recovery/Shadow reduction harder instead of inventing an entire new rule is both easy and elegant IMO

Cheers
Tolwen

zedturtle wrote: I have to board the "me too" train... I think this is a great alternative to the standard rules. The standard rules provide an answer as to why High Elves don't go out very much; this is a bit of that, but not as strongly restrictive. My mind is split on this issue, but I do think that heroes should be allowed to adventure.

Tolwen, could you develop a bit more on the "finer grained for greater detail" idea? What aspects of the game/lore do you think should be extra considered?
What other mechanics other than Heal Corruption are there to reduce the score? I can only think of in-adventure moments, like the Campfire Tale explained in Heart of the Wild (p.21), where helping Farmann allows to decrease 1 Shadow Point:

Companions with a Shadow score feel relieved, as if they just received good news from someone they care for — everyone may decrease their Shadow score by one point.

Zed, I get your meaning. As far as I can see, part of why elves should like to stay in Rivendell (or Lórien, etc.) better than in human cities, etc is because they are more easily made Sanctuaries and get two rolls for the Heal Corruption Undertaking.
I understand that, in game terms, a Noldo can make Erebor his Sanctuary (if the Fellowship agrees) as easily as a Dwarf from the Lonely Mountain. I don't feel more rules for this are necessary, after all adventurers are special, first of all, because they are capable of actions that don't necessarily benefit only their hometown.
But, if needed, Elves of Rivendell could be added the hindrance of not being able to have any non-elven town as Sanctuary (I use this rule for the Rangers of the North, despised wherever they go except for Rivendell and other elven havens). That would make them want to return to Rivendell as much as possible, at least always that they need Heal Corruption.

A second option I thought of, but which I didn't develop, was to make all High Elves start with 1 Permanent Shadow and the first Flaw of their Degeneration tree. They've been living far more than any other culture, and have more initial experience and higher skills because they've been fighting the Shadow. But fighting the Shadow has a toll.

High Elves would only need 3 more flaws instead of 4 to finish their game live, then. And the first flaw could be a nice opportunity to develop in the background story of the character what he's been doing in the last 1000 years.

But I don't know if the mechanic to reduce Shadow should then be left as the one used for other cultures, if they should still half the amount recovered, etc.

Well, I wouldn't say that it's only elven havens they can use. Istari havens should also count. (Chilling with Saruman to heal corruption is counterintuitive, perhaps, but I see nothing wrong with chilling with Radagast or Gandalf. While the Grey Pilgrim doesn't technically have a haven, he has Narya, the ring of Fire instead. Since he's got that, hanging with him counts as a sanctuary, wherever he is. Same goes for Dunedain, of course. The Istari, who know better, are fair game) Since healing corruption in Isengard is a little silly, perhaps Noldor who go there can use Artificer Virtue all at once...giving a weapon +2 and enchanting it in one fellowship phase.

Other things that may happen in Isengard is, if you choose to practice a virtue that has multiple 'levels'...like artificer, against the unseen, wood elf magic, etc., you can cap the ability out at all at once.

Don't like the idea of starting with a flaw though.

Angelalex242 wrote:Well, I wouldn't say that it's only elven havens they can use. Istari havens should also count. (Chilling with Saruman to heal corruption is counterintuitive, perhaps, but I see nothing wrong with chilling with Radagast or Gandalf. While the Grey Pilgrim doesn't technically have a haven, he has Narya, the ring of Fire instead. Since he's got that, hanging with him counts as a sanctuary, wherever he is. Same goes for Dunedain, of course. The Istari, who know better, are fair game)

Nice idea! I like that Narya could provide the effects of a Sanctuary to the heroes that spend a Winter Phase with him.

Speaking of which, I also considered an inverse of Eye Awareness... maybe call it Valar awareness or Gandalf Awareness...

Essentially, people who do the right thing often enough and consistently enough get noticed by the big goods of Middle Earth.

Falenthal wrote:Tolwen, could you develop a bit more on the "finer grained for greater detail" idea? What aspects of the game/lore do you think should be extra considered?

I was thinking of grading the effect elven havens. For example, Thranduil's halls would be less effective (being Silvan/Sinda place) than for example Rivendell or Lindon which are primarily Noldorin in character or Lórien which has Galadriel and Nenya despite being a Silvan/Sinda realm too. Thus at Thranduil's place Noldo characters may only get a third of the regular effect (simulating also the fact that they are not overly welcome there) of singing etc.

Thus the basic idea of "finer grained" is to make the strength of the healing effect dependent on the place you are and perhaps the time you are (in earlier times, you might get a better fraction or a bonus to your roll).

The question is, how much fine detail you want in your game? The more gradations you make, the more complex and unwieldy it becomes, but it also adds "realism" in the way of representing different settings and places better. Here there is IMO no easy solution, as everyone has to decide which level of detail is enough. For one, rough guidelines thatmake everything relatively easy and straightforward is perfect, while others prefer a much more detailed and complex environment.

Cheers
Tolwen

Tolwen wrote:Thus at Thranduil's place Noldo characters may only get a third of the regular effect (simulating also the fact that they are not overly welcome there) of singing etc.

Well thought!

It would make any Noldo really think twice before adventuring into Mirkwood.