Poll: Name Forlindon's River

[Otaku-sempai]

For the purposes of my write-up of Forlindon, I named the river that runs through it the Linduin (Singing River). Professor Tolkien never named the waterway for Christopher Tolkien's maps of Middle-earth in the Third Age. However, it does in part follow the course of the Gelion, the great river of Thargelion and Lindon of the First Age. So the river might instead keep the old name Gelion or a variation of same. Which do you prefer?

A. Gelion

B. Vingelion (New Gelion)

C. Linduin (Singing River)

D. Forlindon (North Lindon)

E. Other: ______

[Earendil]

If you believe it is meant to be the same river as the Gelion, then I would stick with that name. It doesn't feel right to me that the Elves would give it a totally different name.

But I'm not sure it is the same river. It seems to rise much further south, though it may flow along the same path for some of its length, in which case I could see a justification for calling it Vingelion to reflect the changes that have happened since the First Age.

Or it could be a completely different river! In which case I'd go with Linduin rather than Forlindon, because I dislike the idea of the river simply having the same name as the land it flows through.

Go not to Eärendil for counsel, for he will say both no and yes...

[Elmoth]

Earendil's comments seem spot on to me, so I support them as well. My knowledge on this is existent, so do not take them as kosher at all, though

[Otaku-sempai]

I've been treating the later river as a different one from the Gelion, but I have noted that it's course does parallel part of the one of the earlier waterway. This is why I thought that the Elves in Lindon might retain the original name or use a variation of that name (Vingelion; Vin-gelion?). I still like Linduin, the SInging River, as a reference to the "Land of Song," Lindon, but I'm attempting to be open-minded and adaptable.

[Elmoth]

Fior a non-gelion river, Linduin sounds great. But if it is related to the Gelion, Vingelion seems like a better choice. Elves are famous for being sticklers to old stuffafter all, being cranky weirdo grandpas.

[Earendil]

Something else has occurred to me:

"Duin" means a long, large river. For a smaller river "sîr" is maybe more appropriate. It's not clear to me how large the river in question is, but the only examples I can think of for "duin" are the Anduin, the Baranduin and the Celduin, all of which are much longer than it is (assuming the Celduin keeps that name after its confluence with the Carnen).

I don't know much about Sindarin, though, so I couldn't do an accurate translation of "singing river" or "river of song". Something like "Sîr Lind", maybe.

[Otaku-sempai]

"Duin" means a long, large river. For a smaller river "sîr" is maybe more appropriate. It's not clear to me how large the river in question is, but the only examples I can think of for "duin" are the Anduin, the Baranduin and the Celduin, all of which are much longer than it is (assuming the Celduin keeps that name after its confluence with the Carnen).

At a length of 200 miles, I think that the use of the suffix -duin is reasonable. I also assume that the river is large and gentle enough that the Elves float logs down to the harbor of Forlond from the forest directly south of Dolmed. I did use sir- for the Siruial flowing from the Hills of Evendim to the Lhûn.

[Earendil]

Fair enough! It's your project, after all!

I'm certainly not saying you're wrong to use "duin", it was just a point that I hadn't thought of and I thought you might not have considered.

[Majestic]

I like Linduin, myself.

[Tolwen]

The question is a tricky one and IMO not well suited to a simple "yes/no" answer. The map below shows an excerpt of Lindon in the First Age (light gray) overlayed with the Third age outline (black).



As we can see, the Gelion and the river in Forlindon are located in a similar area, but their courses are quite different. Personally, I think that the 3A river can be the re-made Gelion whose course was drastically altered by the upheavals following the sinking of Beleriand and Númenor. Therefore a new name for this new course does sound reasonable to me. Thus the "official" name in the Third Age might be Linduin (or at least Vingelion to reflect its new nature), but old Elves with memories of Thargelion and Ossiriand might cling to the appellation of "Gelion" for nostalgic and/or personal reasons.

Cheers
Tolwen