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Balrog leather. I hear that makes the best sling pouches.

For the record, I'm not crazy about encumbrance for ammo either. But OS seemed committed to the idea of two types of ammo, and I was looking for a way to make that work.

Glorelendil wrote:Balrog leather. I hear that makes the best sling pouches.

That would grant a Flaming Avenger Sling, for sure.

Falenthal wrote:Seriously, I think that the idea of a basic sling that can get up to three Qualities (like every other weapon) is better than having two slings.

The reasons why a Sling becomes Fell, Grievous or Keen can be left in the air. I also can't imagine exactly how a Dagger or a Bow can become Grievous, for instance, but don't have a problem with that.

Better ammo, a more elastic leather for the strap, a longer strap so that the stone gains more impulse,... I don't know, whatever you can invent.

My solution was to give the Qualities to the ammunition rather than to the Sling itself. It seems to work, at least on paper. I have, however, introduced a Sling in a post above as a magical weapon.

Glorelendil wrote:For the record, I'm not crazy about encumbrance for ammo either. But OS seemed committed to the idea of two types of ammo, and I was looking for a way to make that work.

You've probably seen by now that I have abandoned that idea.

Otaku-sempai wrote: My solution was to give the Qualities to the ammunition rather than to the Sling itself. It seems to work, at least on paper.

Perhaps standard, round Sling-stones should be the default and Sling-bullets should be considered to be a result of an upgrade in Quality:
- Grievous (plus 2 to Damage): Larger, heavier projectiles that inflict more harm.
- Keen (Edge is reduced by 1): Shaped in an ellipsoid to be more aerodynamic and deliver better penetration.
- Fell (plus 2 to Injury): Stones have been replaced with denser and more compact iron or lead shot.

While I am grateful for the effort you've made to explain in detail how a certain weapon can be Keened, etc. I don't think TOR needs it. There's no exact explanation in the book of how a certain weapon is modified to represent those Qualities. You, as player, can come up with some interesting details... or not.

It's the kind of detail that, if representing too much trouble or needing a twisted reasoning, can be left unexplained in this game, IMHO.

Falenthal wrote:While I am grateful for the effort you've made to explain in detail how a certain weapon can be Keened, etc. I don't think TOR needs it. There's no exact explanation in the book of how a certain weapon is modified to represent those Qualities. You, as player, can come up with some interesting details... or not.

It's the kind of detail that, if representing too much trouble or needing a twisted reasoning, can be left unexplained in this game, IMHO.

The descriptions of the Qualities do provide some general guidelines for how some of those Qualities can be obtained, such as:

Grievous (weapon, unique)
The weapon is strong and heavy, inflicting more harm on its targets.

I agree, though, that this can be hard to directly apply in order to explain exactly what improvement is made on some objects. With the Sling, it is hard to see how using superior materials is going to affect its performance. Replacing a handle made from horn with a mithril one isn't going to accomplish much. Even if you bash someone with the handle, it's only going to be treated as an improvised weapon attack. We can leave such improvements unexplained, as you suggest. But applying them (or some of them) to the Sling-shot instead of the Sling itself, does give us a way to provide such a justification.

Otaku-sempai wrote:We can leave such improvements unexplained, as you suggest. But applying them (or some of them) to the Sling-shot instead of the Sling itself, does give us a way to provide such a justification.

Sure. I'm just saying "Leave the explanation to the player who's character has a sling".

Falenthal wrote:

Otaku-sempai wrote:We can leave such improvements unexplained, as you suggest. But applying them (or some of them) to the Sling-shot instead of the Sling itself, does give us a way to provide such a justification.

Sure. I'm just saying "Leave the explanation to the player who's character has a sling".

100% agree with this. Slings with qualities aren't any harder to explain than a lot of existing gear, but Francesco made almost no attempt to do so. Leave it to the players.

My own Sling, using Glorelendil's Weapon Creator Kit:

Sling
Damage: 3
Edge: G
Injury: 12
Encumbrance: 0
Group: Dagger skill
Called Shot: -
Notes: Ranged. Usable by Hobbits.

It is, simply put, a ranged version of a Dagger.

Falenthal wrote:My own Sling, using Glorelendil's Weapon Creator Kit:

Sling
Damage: 3
Edge: G
Injury: 12
Encumbrance: 0
Group: Dagger (a.k.a. Simple Weapons)
Called Shot: -
Notes: Ranged. Usable by Hobbits.

It is, simply put, a ranged version of a Dagger.

I dunno, but the lower numbers might compensate for making it too easy to use for an unskilled wielder. The reality is that if you are untrained in the sling, you are more likely to injure yourself than your target. You didn't assign it a Range; I considered Bow Range to be conservative and the minimum effective Range.