New Weapon: Sling

[Glorelendil]

My own Sling, using Glorelendil's Weapon Creator Kit:

Sling
Damage: 3
Edge: G
Injury: 12
Encumbrance: 0
Group: Dagger (a.k.a. Simple Weapons)
Called Shot: -
Notes: Ranged. Usable by Hobbits.

It is, simply put, a ranged version of a Dagger.

I dunno, but the lower numbers might compensate for making it too easy to use for an unskilled wielder. The reality is that if you are untrained in the sling, you are more likely to injure yourself than your target.

I did exactly this when I was around 8 or 10. I was trying to be David slaying Goliath, and used one of my dad's neckties and a chunk of asphalt. BAM! right in the face.

That said, part of what he and I are proposing is that the "Dagger" skill actually mean "Dagger, Throwing, Slings, Punching, Staff, Club, and other weapons which are less lethal." So it's not that you're "unskilled" in Sling, it's that the skill is wrapped up in a bundle of skills. Sort of like (Swords) skill.

[Falenthal]

That said, part of what he and I are proposing is that the "Dagger" skill actually mean "Dagger, Throwing, Slings, Punching, Staff, Club, and other weapons which are less lethal." So it's not that you're "unskilled" in Sling, it's that the skill is wrapped up in a bundle of skills. Sort of like (Swords) skill.

Exactly. Using a Sling with a Dagger skill of 1 is probably taking you nowhere with a basic TN of 12 + Parry + (double shield). You NEED training to hit anything with a Sling, even more than to hit something with a sword when in Forward Stance.

As for the range, Bow would be ok.

[Otaku-sempai]

I take it we are talking about something slightly different than the guidelines in RAW about improvised weapons in Brawling or Throwing attacks (not that either should strictly apply to the Sling which is designed to hurl a projectile over greater distance and with greater force than can be achieved by a simple throw).

[Falenthal]

Yeah, I think we're not exactly thinking the same when we say "this is a Dagger skilled weapon".
Simply put, you won't hit anything with a skill of 1 in Dagger with a punch or a thrown stone (as in RAW). The same goes for a sling.

But you seem unsatisfied with the fact that developing ranks in the Dagger skill allows a character to get better with his fists, his dagger, a sling, a quarterstaff, a broken bottle and a stool. For you, a sling, a quarterstaff, a club,... should not be raised just for sympathy with other weapons.

I agree if we're talking realism here, but to me that's not a red line in this game. I'm happy with allowing this heterodox group of weapons to raise simulatneously if they are all low end weapons, with lower damaging/killing stats than the usual war gear (like the Dagger is compared to a Short Sword or beyond).

[Otaku-sempai]

If we are using the RAW regarding improvised weapons then Edge and Injury become meaningless with the staves, sling, etc. Neither a brawling attack nor a throwing attack can result in a Piercing blow.

[Falenthal]

If we are using the RAW regarding improvised weapons then Edge and Injury become meaningless with the staves, sling, etc. Neither a brawling attack nor a throwing attack can result in a Piercing blow.

But a dagger does. I want variants of a dagger, not of a punch or a kick.

[Otaku-sempai]

If we are using the RAW regarding improvised weapons then Edge and Injury become meaningless with the staves, sling, etc. Neither a brawling attack nor a throwing attack can result in a Piercing blow.

But a dagger does. I want variants of a dagger, not of a punch or a kick.

Yes, but a sling is not a dagger, nor is in any way similar except perhaps in size. They're not comparable.

[Glorelendil]

If we are using the RAW regarding improvised weapons then Edge and Injury become meaningless with the staves, sling, etc. Neither a brawling attack nor a throwing attack can result in a Piercing blow.

But a dagger does. I want variants of a dagger, not of a punch or a kick.

Yes, but a sling is not a dagger, nor is in any way similar except perhaps in size. They're not comparable.

Oh my. Major impedance mismatch occurring here.

Let's try it from a new angle:

First, assume all weapons must be designed according to a point budget. The goal is not to make all weapons realistic, but to keep them balanced, so that players neither feel like they have to choose the "best" one, nor can't choose their favorite one because it's "bad".*

Second, assume there are two categories of weapons: those which require their own skill ranking, but have more point to spend. And those which all share a single general-purpose skill, but have fewer points to spend.

Are those shared-skill weapons similar? No. Would training in one *really* apply to others? No. But the mechanic allows it anyway, because otherwise why on earth would anybody choose them for their characters?

When Falenthal is saying he wants more variants of dagger I believe he is saying he wants more options in that general-purpose, shared skill category.

[Otaku-sempai]

Second, assume there are two categories of weapons: those which require their own skill ranking, but have more point to spend. And those which all share a single general-purpose skill, but have fewer points to spend.

Are those shared-skill weapons similar? No. Would training in one *really* apply to others? No. But the mechanic allows it anyway, because otherwise why on earth would anybody choose them for their characters?

When Falenthal is saying he wants more variants of dagger I believe he is saying he wants more options in that general-purpose, shared skill category.

This is the exact statement to which I was taking exception:

But you seem unsatisfied with the fact that developing ranks in the Dagger skill allows a character to get better with his fists, his dagger, a sling, a quarterstaff, a broken bottle and a stool. For you, a sling, a quarterstaff, a club,... should not be raised just for sympathy with other weapons.

Actually, I think I'm okay with leaving the club in that category--maybe even the staves. I really don't see the sling as fitting this description. It just requires a great deal of training to be proficient with it. Perhaps the sling should simply be reserved for non-player characters unless a Loremaster allows an exception, avoiding the whole issue.

[Glorelendil]

Ok, how about this:

"Unspecified Primitive Ranged Weapon"
Uses Dagger Skill
Damage: 3
Edge: G
Injury: 12
Encumbrance: 0
No Called Shots
Fluff as desired.

(Falenthal and I are fluffing it as "Sling")

Also, I would argue it takes a great deal of practice, not training.