New Herbs

[SirGalrim]

I gave my players the excellent Herbs and Healing supplement by Kurt. It was of most interest to the player who plays a Hobbit with Herb-Lore and a decent Healing skill. So I asked her to read it. She was a bit disappointed over the lack of actual herbs in the document. So I set out to make my own Herbs list. I took inspiration from the expanded lists from "gorgonshead" and Richard Harrison, some from MERP and some from Google results regarding herbs in both our world and in Middle-Earth. But most of the actual text is original.

I've compiled my own list of herbs in Wilderland. Any character can take an undertaking almost everywhere in Wilderland to collect herbs. Collecting herbs in Lake-town will still use the Lake-town list, and not these custom lists. And I've yet to make lists for specific terrain or places besides Wilderland.

Check out the supplemet New Herbs here.

I would love feedback on everything, like names, style and descriptions. But especially feedback on game balance and function.

[Glorelendil]

Finally got around to looking at this. I didn't read *all* the herb descriptions in detail, but here's my feedback on what I did read:

1) I was worried that this was going to be another "make Herb-lore mandatory by giving it a unique mechanical advantage" but I'm glad you adopted the approach in the Laketown supplement.

2) I really like the names you came up with, except for Dandelion. Given that it's a nuisance weed (at least where I'm from...) it's a little jarring.

3) Some of the effects seem a bit too powerful. E.g. Dandelion (again): I'd model it off Reedmace and give it a -4 to Healing TNs when treating Poison, instead of just automatically curing it. Either that or roll the Feat die twice, which is an underused mechanic imo. I know you limit the doses, but how many times will it actually be needed during a typical Adventure Phase? Or the one that reduces Fear TNs by 2: that's actually really powerful, if you know you'll be needing it.

But otherwise I think this is a great extension of the official rules. Nice work.

[Otaku-sempai]

Some of these are just too effective (examples: Dandelion and Burdock). Perhaps you should see what authentic herb-lore says about these and other plants. And there are some obvious ones that have been overlooked completely: The inner bark of the willow tree is an anti-inflammatory that can be dried or made into a tea to reduce fever and pain.

NOTE: 'Dice' is the plural of 'die'. There is only one Feat die. There may be multiple Success dice.

[Glorelendil]

Ok, notes from a more careful read:

Singing Bluebell: get the bonus only when invoking an attribute, otherwise too powerful (too many cultures have benefits based on Heart score.)

Wild Surine Plums: waaaaay too powerful. Maybe increase Pool by 1?

Arpasur Stalk: automatic treatment of wounds? How many? Compare to Reedmace.

Purple Clover: sounds like it should affect all Wits skills, not Vocation.

Golden Cress: I'm not sure if it's OP, but it doesn't feel like TOR.

Mugwort: not clear how many times you can use this during an Adventure Phase.

Splayfoot Goodwort: maybe not as OP as I said in my previous post. Still quite good, though.

Silver Alfirin: I wouldn't give a single herb two different uses; just overcomplicates things. And the second use, adding two successes, isn't clearly worded. Does that mean any success becomes an Extraordinary Success? Or Even if you fail get two successes? I'd think about using the tried and true mechanic: "Increases the degree of any success by 1."

Bulch Fungus: this feels like it's wandering into Alchemy and the brewing of magic potions, not just herb-lore.

Burdock: Is "diseased" a condition that shows up in TOR?

Truder Moss: same category as Bulch fungus


You know, the more I think about this...the problem isn't necessarily that some of these herbs are too powerful, it's that it's too powerful when anybody with Herb-lore can choose the specific herb they want. If some of the more powerful ones were relegated to a single number on the Feat die, and the Herb-lore benefit were changed to "roll twice and pick the result you want", I think variance in power would be fine. It's just when somebody with Herb-lore can pick the best herb every Adevnture phase that I think we have a problem.

[zedturtle]

If some of the more powerful ones were relegated to a single number on the Feat die, and the Herb-lore benefit were changed to "roll twice and pick the result you want", I think variance in power would be fine. It's just when somebody with Herb-lore can pick the best herb every Adevnture phase that I think we have a problem.

I like that. A lot.

[SirGalrim]

Thanks for the feedback. I am unsure about Dandelion myself. Actually more of the herbs had names from our world in an earlier draft. But I changed most of them. Because most just has folk myth legends to its curative effects, it is not well documented. But on the other hand it can be in Middle-Earth those same plants have an a much stronger effect then in our world as it's a world of magic. Dandelion is one such plant that some claim has an effect. I think its a bit funny to include it as most view it as just a weed. Exactly like your reaction here. And maybe that could explain why many of these herbs are not used even more by common people. Not just the lack of knowledge, but also that they would be perceived as weeds and unwanted. I'll consider what to do with Dandelion, Willow bark and other "real" herbs in the next version.

Singing Bluebell: get the bonus only when invoking an attribute, otherwise too powerful (too many cultures have benefits based on Heart score.)

Changed.

Wild Surine Plums: waaaaay too powerful. Maybe increase Pool by 1?

This was shamelessly stolen from Rich's supplement but changed name. I agree that increase fellowship pool is better.

Arpasur Stalk: automatic treatment of wounds? How many? Compare to Reedmace.

One time.

Purple Clover: sounds like it should affect all Wits skills, not Vocation.

Description changed. All Wits skills favoured would be a bit powerful I think.

Golden Cress: I'm not sure if it's OP, but it doesn't feel like TOR.

Maybe? Better if Edge rating is decreased by 1? I don't want to make it into Poison. That would feel to much D&D to me.

Mugwort: not clear how many times you can use this during an Adventure Phase.

One time.

Silver Alfirin: I wouldn't give a single herb two different uses; just overcomplicates things. And the second use, adding two successes, isn't clearly worded. Does that mean any success becomes an Extraordinary Success? Or Even if you fail get two successes? I'd think about using the tried and true mechanic: "Increases the degree of any success by 1."

I was trying to fit inn all that the relatives of this plant further south can do. But maybe I should stick with one effect only.

Bulch Fungus: this feels like it's wandering into Alchemy and the brewing of magic potions, not just herb-lore.

Effective use of herbs sometimes requires some work after to make it useful. So I have included Craft and Healing test for certain herbs. These are in general maybe in general a bit more "powerful" than those without any test. In this case I take it is more the word "Elixir" that rub you off?

Burdock: Is "diseased" a condition that shows up in TOR?

No, only in house rules..

You know, the more I think about this...the problem isn't necessarily that some of these herbs are too powerful, it's that it's too powerful when anybody with Herb-lore can choose the specific herb they want. If some of the more powerful ones were relegated to a single number on the Feat die, and the Herb-lore benefit were changed to "roll twice and pick the result you want", I think variance in power would be fine. It's just when somebody with Herb-lore can pick the best herb every Adevnture phase that I think we have a problem.

Yes, good idea. I'll change this.

[Otaku-sempai]

Where you have taken the names from the real world--dandelion; burdock--perhaps you should create original variants (with descriptions) like: Silver Dandelion; Purple Burdock.

Also, I would consider altering the effects to be more like modifying the difficulty of the Healing role against disease or poison by as much as two levels (TN -4) instead of effecting a complete cure. This would be more in the spirit of the material presented in the Lake-town supplement.

[Glorelendil]

Where you have taken the names from the real world--dandelion; burdock--perhaps you should create original variants (with descriptions) like: Silver Dandelion; Purple Burdock.

Also, I would consider altering the effects to be more like modifying the difficulty of the Healing role against disease or poison by as much as two levels (TN -4) instead of effecting a complete cure. This would be more in the spirit of the material presented in the Lake-town supplement.

Two good suggestions.

[Robin Smallburrow]

Having now read your new New Herbs supplement, firstly I agree with comments made previously that there is a danger this could make Herb-Lore & Herbalists too powerful - yes these herbs are more effective in Middle-earth than in our world because of the 'Subtle Magic' of the world, but you should still downgrade their effects so that players know that being Wounded still sucks!

I also think you need to introduce (for those herbs that enhance or stimulate) a chance of addiction, as this is what happens in the real world...

I also have some questions:

1) How much of this list is based on real world examples? I used real world examples where possible when compiling the herbs for my Desert Campaign Guide (see link in my sig) as this is what I believe Tolkien would have done. The biggest problem I had with the MERP herb lists was exactly this issue. The Black Forest in Germany is a good starting point, indeed it was actually called 'Mirkwood' I believe.

2) Why have you grouped them into seasons? Aren't there any herbs that might be available all year (or at least for most of the year?)

3) What do you say to a Player playing Ranger X who says "I'm going to forage for Herb Y" (such as Athelas), and why isn't Athelas in your list to start with??

4) Keep in mind my comments made to Kurt earlier on this thread as well!

Robin S.

[Faeron8]

I'm very interessed in this thread, as for my adventure 2 of my PCs have herb-lore... But my main concern is the same that everyone mentioned above: how to avoid making it too OP.
I had a preliminary idea, I'm not yet convenced by it so I'm really open for criticism and suggestions.

I divided the Herbs collecting in the two phases of the game: the Fellowship and the Adventure. In the first one it would work accordingly to the Lake-Town Sourcebook and with the idea of this thread, I would make minor changes on the effects, but with the time spent working - and with the proper knowlodge - of the herbs in the Fellowship phase its powers are maximize, increasing damage ratings and so on.
On the otherhand, when they are collected in the Adventure Phase, the herbs are "raw", with no additional effects, being just a way to automatically succeeding a test of Healing, for instance. The player should keep track of the "expiration date" of the herbs (5 days according to Kurt's supplement) in order to use the Trait properly.

Sorry for the poor english and I hope I'm not making Herb-lore even more unbalanced