forums.cubicle7.co.uk
archive

I still haven't read the new rules for Riding Combat, so maybe I'm missing something from the Wolf-riders that appear in the Horse-lords supplement. But it surprised me that this enemy doesn't have any kind of attack by the wolf. There's only this limited Strike Fear to represent that there's a wolf also fighting.

I don't like options like having two separate enemies (goblin and wolf) for the fight or come up with some strange rules.

But it occured to me a simple way to simulate the biting presence of the wolf:

Add "Savage Assault" to the abilities, and substitute the secondary attack from Bent Sword 2 to Bite 2, with a damage of 3, Edge 10 and Injury 14 (as per the normal Wild Wolf from the Core Book).
To use it, maybe 2 points of Hate should be added to the creature.

Other ideas came to mind, that could be worth sharing:

An additional modification that could be contemplated is to change Hideous Thoughness (which I interpret as a way to simulate the fact that there are two creatures together and, therefore, can resist more blows) for Great Size. Great Size could symbolize that you need to kill two creatures (two Wounds) or knock one Unconsciouss and kill the other (Endurance 0 and one Wound). If this change were applied, and as Great Size doesn't need Hate points where Hideous Toghness does, I wouldn't add the 2 extra Hate points proposed for adding Savage Assault.

A third option is to add Seize Victim, but with a small note: "When the Secondary Attack (Bite in this case) hits, the victim is Seized. For the next round, only attacks with the Primary Attack can be made."
In fact it's the same as Seize Victim, but changing the Primary for the Secondary attack and viceversa.
So, a Wolf-rider could attack with his Spear. If the result was a hit with a 6 or 66, he could spend a Hate point to do a second attack with the wolf (Bite). If the Bite hits too, that's additional damage AND Seize Victim. Next round, the wolf can't attack with his Bite (i.e. the Secondary attack can't be used even with Savage Assault), but the goblin attacks with his Spear to a Seized victim.

I'd look at the mounted combat rules. Those Orcs get several advantages from those. And, for simplicity, those rules do not allow for the mount to attack. This isn't very realistic, but it simplifies play enormously, and it should likely be applied fairly to different mounts.

But they're wolves, not horses, you might say. To which I respond that warhorses regularly killed people, and are actually quite a bit nastier in a fight than most wolves. they still don't get an attack or even the possibility of one in this system.

You're right, I'll read the mounted combat rules before further comenting this.

But for now, I still think that adding Savage Assault and renaming the secondary attack to Bite is a simple but effective fluff...

I've used Warg Riders long before HLoR came out and went with the Savage Assault and Seize Victim options, applying them to differentiate between types of adversary. For their leader I even created a new ability, similar in application to Great Size, allowing for him to be wounded but still remain active if not below zero Endurance and narrating the rider or warg being killed with the first wound. They all worked pretty well and gave some mechanical difference between the three types. for a fourth type you can even swap around the primary/secondary weapon usage of Savage Assault - bite/melee rather than melee/bite. Wouldn't make a lot of difference (I'd also swap the skill ratings) but narratively could be described differently, the warg effectively leading the attack rather than the rider.

I would also go for a Hate triggered ability, like the men from Tyrant Hill:
Spend 1 Hate to make an extra attack, Bite 3. Keep the Hate at 4.
That'll make for a few possibly dangerous attacks, triggered at the LM's disgression.
My 2 cents
Cheers

Rich H wrote:I've used Warg Riders long before HLoR came out and went with the Savage Assault and Seize Victim options, applying them to differentiate between types of adversary. For their leader I even created a new ability, similar in application to Great Size, allowing for him to be wounded but still remain active if not below zero Endurance and narrating the rider or warg being killed with the first wound. They all worked pretty well and gave some mechanical difference between the three types. for a fourth type you can even swap around the primary/secondary weapon usage of Savage Assault - bite/melee rather than melee/bite. Wouldn't make a lot of difference (I'd also swap the skill ratings) but narratively could be described differently, the warg effectively leading the attack rather than the rider.

Would be interesting to test if such Wolf-rider might be even more interesting to face than the new official ones, with the new rules for Mounted Combat.

After reading the rules, my intuition (but not knowledge) tells me that wolf-riders with Great Size and Savage Assault and/or Seize Victim seem nastier and funnier to play: adversaries with low endurance and armor, but with the capability to inflict some damage pretty fast. After they've weakened the lines a bit, send the Uruk-hais to finish the dirty work...

I think Falenthal is on the right track, that you don't want to roll two separate attacks. But I'd model it on Men of the Lake's Shield Fighting: if the Orc hits with a Feat die of 8 or higher the Warg gets in a bite, doing AL damage.

Glorelendil wrote:I think Falenthal is on the right track, that you don't want to roll two separate attacks. But I'd model it on Men of the Lake's Shield Fighting: if the Orc hits with a Feat die of 8 or higher the Warg gets in a bite, doing AL damage.

Is this an April Fool's day joke or a real proposal?

I'll NEVER know anymore with you, Glor...

Glorelendil wrote:I think Falenthal is on the right track, that you don't want to roll two separate attacks. But I'd model it on Men of the Lake's Shield Fighting: if the Orc hits with a Feat die of 8 or higher the Warg gets in a bite, doing AL damage.

Not bad at all, but just to know: why do you choose (or propose) a mechanic modeled on Hero's Virtues, when there's an already existing Adversary's ability that simulates the same? Any particular reason?

Falenthal wrote:Would be interesting to test if such Wolf-rider might be even more interesting to face than the new official ones, with the new rules for Mounted Combat.

After reading the rules, my intuition (but not knowledge) tells me that wolf-riders with Great Size and Savage Assault and/or Seize Victim seem nastier and funnier to play: adversaries with low endurance and armor, but with the capability to inflict some damage pretty fast. After they've weakened the lines a bit, send the Uruk-hais to finish the dirty work...

I'll have to have a look at digging out their stats. Only wrote them down as rough notes but wouldn't take much work to get them to a finished state.