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Glorelendil wrote:Now that I agree with. I'm all for leaving room within canon for narrative richness, as long as it's done to make for a better story, not because "that's what would have happened, based on Earth history."

It seems like it should be hard to get too caught up with historical accuracy in a mythical take on the world that possesses a radically different geography.

Yeah, my reservations, such as they are, are more about maintaining the proper "feel" of Middle Earth. That was one of MERPs shortcomings. ICE somewhat shoehorned Middle-Earth into Rolemaster's generic FRPG mold.

One of the things that I really like about TOR is that the system stresses the flavor of Middle Earth over the standard RPG tropes. So the game has more of a playing in Middle Earth feeling than either of it's two predecessors.

Otaku-sempai wrote:

Glorelendil wrote:Now that I agree with. I'm all for leaving room within canon for narrative richness, as long as it's done to make for a better story, not because "that's what would have happened, based on Earth history."

It seems like it should be hard to get too caught up with historical accuracy in a mythical take on the world that possesses a radically different geography.

You would think so, right?

atgxtg wrote:Yeah, but the impression I got was that the west with the cultures of the Elves, Dwarves and men of Westernesse represented the most technically advanced cultures in Middle Earth. So I wouldn't expect the Easterlings to have surpassed them.

I would note that the Numenoreans had the steel-bow (which itself is based on the real-world Gupta Empire steel-bow)......

Er-Murazor wrote: I would note that the Numenoreans had the steel-bow (which itself is based on the real-world Gupta Empire steel-bow)......

Is that conjecture or did Tolkien say so?

Er-Murazor wrote:I would note that the Numenoreans had the steel-bow..

I know. I even wrote up some stats for the Numenorean Steel Bow.

Er-Murazor wrote:..(which itself is based on the real-world Gupta Empire steel-bow)......

Not so sure about that. For one thing, the Gupta steel-bow was a short bow, flat, and bent like a hairpin, while the Numenorean bow was long, rounded, and hollow.

There's a quote from Unfinished Tales ("Cirion & Eorl") about the Balchoth that might be helpful:

"...hosts of men were mustering all along the southern eaves of Mirkwood. They were only rudely armed, and had no great number of horses for riding, using horses mainly for draught, since they had many large wains, as had the Wainriders (to whom they were no doubt akin) that had assailed Gondor in the last days of the Kings. But what they lacked in gear of war they made up in numbers, so far as could be guessed."

"They were only rudely armed" suggests to me that these Balchoth, probably, did not possess bows on a par with those of the westerners.

I have always envisioned their missile troops to be little more than a skirmishing line of unarmoured slingers, javelineers and occasional bowmen.

Now...that's not to say that their descendants might not have developed more advanced bow technology.

My understanding is that the "real world" correlations of Easterlings are:

Wainriders (of mid-Third Age) = Huns c.400 AD (destroyed or assimilated by late Third Age)

Balchoth = Bulgars c.900 AD

"Easterlings with axes" "bearded like half-dwarves" from "the Wide East" = Rus (Eastern Slavs) c.900 AD

Variags = Varangians c.900 AD. Sauronic Norsemen. Can be from Khand (Khazaria) or from the Wide East (Rus)

Men of Khand = Khazars c.900 AD

Viniths (hinted at in the name "Vinitharya") = Wends (Western Slavs) c.900

The ME-Baltic peoples = "a host of the allies of Sauron that had long threatened the borders of King Brand crossed the River Carnen" (LotR) = Lituanians, Curonians, Livonians, Latgallians, Semigallians, Selonians, Oeselians, Estonians.

Men of the Last Desert = Men of the Gobi Desert c.900AD: Tanguts, Uyghurs, and Khitans.

The other 900AD peoples of Eastern Europe and Asia would have corollaries too: Poles, Moravians, Croats, Serbs, Magyars, Cumans, and so forth. The nearest ones are hinted at in the LotR: "And embassies came from many lands and peoples, from the East and the South, and from the borders of Mirkwood"

That the Men of the East (ME-Asians) bear high cultures is indicated by how Saruman chose to spend over a thousand years dwelling among the Easterlings. Given his lofty interests, it's hard to picture him dwelling in the tents of steppe tribes. He probably dwelled among the ME analogue of Persia - the source of "magic." (Magi)

The Blue Wizards were probably based in ME-China and ME-India. Both are hinted at by Tolkien: in a draft of The Hobbit, there are references to the "Chinese" and the "Hindu Kush" mountains. Also seen on Tolkien's sketch map of the world from Shaping of Middle-earth.

https://atolkienistperspective.files.wo ... olkien.gif

I suggest that whatever kind of bows these peoples had in 900AD, their ME analog would have, in a similar way that the material technology of the Rohirrim and Dale-men are clearly modeled on the 900 A.D.-era Mercians and Swedes (Dalecarlians).

For more, see: https://sites.google.com/site/endorenya

P.S. For a rough reference map of the corollary Easterling cultures of the late Third Age, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gansu_Uyg ... _900ad.jpg