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Hi Rich H,

Thanks for your analysis of this specific travel.

So far we are playing it since 2 sessions (5 hours total) and the heroes are at the end of the 6th day since Dale.

This is the first travel that i play with management of fatigue and hasards. But i'm not really using the rules (raw or house) and i have prefered to have already defined hazards and i'm doing a specific focus on food management and on fatigue. I want the players to feel that travelling in salvage and shadow lands is not holidays. For that the way i manage this travel is :
- Tasks test every day :
. failure for the guide and for the rowers will mean a small hazard (like their boat goes aground) with consequence on fatigue
. Failure for the hunters mean impact on food stock

- fatigue test (every day) only in the dark land (as the heroes got fatigue in the easy legs by having failure on their tasks tests, i did'nt need to add more)

- corruption test every day in the dark land

When they launch their dices, i use the standard TR 14 but i give extra bonus and malus that they are not fully aware. For example, in the last days they failed hunting and their dinner was going to be unpleasant (old bread and meat). But their new friend (a Beornide met earlier that day) was luckier in hunting and is also good in cooking and has honey cakes. Then he prepared a restorative meal that had positive impact on the health and morale and thus on the corruption and fatigue tests TR.

As you see, i'm not following the rules (raw or house) and i have prefered so far to use my own feeling and deep preparation (define the legs, set the hasards...) before the session.
It does not mean i'm doing the right way and this way is probably less balanced (but i can easily add a new hazard or happy event if i see that something is unbalanced).
Now i do this way also because this travel is very short, i would not detailed every single day in a longuest travel and i would stick more to some rule like yours.
Anyway so far this first travel expérience is very positive : the players are having fun, they feel the danger of dark Land travelling and they feel stressed for their characters while they have not yet met the main danger. 2 players are fond of Tolkien like me and they told me that they feel like they are in a Tolkien like travel. All what i wanted

Edit : One point that i don't like much with travel rules is that luck / bad luck is too important. Exemple :
- having hazard in raw depends of Mordor eye on dices (the first travel tested with raw a few weeks ago was lucky for players (no Mordor 's eye) but the travel was boring as no hazard.
- in your house rule, there is far less luck factor but still there are more than i'd like (disposition and arrival D12 tests are modified by previous Gandalf / Mordor signs, but still you can do a arrival D12=1 after a travel that was very nicely managed by the heroes, or a arrival D12=Gandalf after a bad travel with many shadow and fatigue points.
I prefer when results depends more on heroes actions than on dice Luck. But well this is my own way of play, i understand that others have different way of getting fun.

It looks like a fine way to play the travel, Ghorin!

For short and important travels, I agree that playing nearly every day is part of the adventure. Journey rules can be more helpful when long journeys are made, or when the "going there" is not a main part of the adventure.

In The Lord of the Rings, for example, Tolkien describes nearly every day of travel from when the Hobbits leave Bag's End until they reach Bree, being pursued by the Black Riders and finding awesome people and places at their doorstep (Gildor and the Wandering Elves, Farmer Maggot, the Old Forest, Old Man Willow, Tom Bombadil, the Barrow Downs,...).

But once they have Strider with them, and when they flee Weathertop, the rest of the journey is summarized in a few sentences until the group meets Glorfindel.

So, depending on what you want to highlight in your adventure, it's ok to skip the Journeys rules and do a more "day to day" play of a travel.

Ghorin wrote:- in your house rule, there is far less luck factor but still there are more than i'd like (disposition and arrival D12 tests are modified by previous Gandalf / Mordor signs, but still you can do a arrival D12=1 after a travel that was very nicely managed by the heroes, or a arrival D12=Gandalf after a bad travel with many shadow and fatigue points.

True, but as previously mentioned an LM would be okay to assign a further bonus or even pick from the chart should they wish based on what had occurred within the journey; the dice rolls and results should never be used to override common sense.

Falenthal wrote: ...
In The Lord of the Rings, for example, Tolkien describes nearly every day of travel from when the Hobbits leave Bag's End until they reach Bree, being pursued by the Black Riders and finding awesome people and places at their doorstep (Gildor and the Wandering Elves, Farmer Maggot, the Old Forest, Old Man Willow, Tom Bombadil, the Barrow Downs,...).

But once they have Strider with them, and when they flee Weathertop, the rest of the journey is summarized in a few sentences until the group meets Glorfindel.
...

I don't have the same analysis for that part of their travel : for me the "Bag End's to Bree" is effectively a specific leg of the travel to Rivendell (it's not the same peril rating and terrain type than between Bree and Rivendell). But for me the reason for which each day is described is it's a hazard that goes from the start until Bree : they are pursued by the Black Riders and they have to flee, loose the pursuers and go to the shelter (Bree). Without that hazard, that leg could have been managed in quicker way (not dayd by day)

Rich H wrote:

Ghorin wrote:- in your house rule, there is far less luck factor but still there are more than i'd like (disposition and arrival D12 tests are modified by previous Gandalf / Mordor signs, but still you can do a arrival D12=1 after a travel that was very nicely managed by the heroes, or a arrival D12=Gandalf after a bad travel with many shadow and fatigue points.

True, but as previously mentioned an LM would be okay to assign a further bonus or even pick from the chart should they wish based on what had occurred within the journey; the dice rolls and results should never be used to override common sense.

Then I have no more criticism on that disposition / arrival house rule You are right, common sense and objectives of the LM are the last decision and can impact those dice rolls.

I should perhaps put a "Loremaster Advice" column in that section dealing with this. It isn't obvious and doesn't hurt to draw it out.

Finally jumping into this discussion. I've just had too much going on and I knew this would be a time sink.

Rich, is the link on the first post the latest version of your rules?

Hi mate; yes it is. I think it could do with a few edits (advice more than anything) but it won't hurt looking at it.

Wow, these rules look amazing! Going to try them out next game for sure.

There is only one tiny detail I would have done differently: I think I would have based the difficulty of the hazards on the region type and not terrain. It is one more thing that the GM must consider, but to me it makes sense that hazards are more about the general malevolence of the region than the terrain type. Like so: Free 12, Border 14, Wild 16, Shadow 18, Dark 20.

Other than that, stunning work.

Arkat wrote:Wow, these rules look amazing! Going to try them out next game for sure.

Cool. If you do, let me know here how it goes.

Arkat wrote:There is only one tiny detail I would have done differently: I think I would have based the difficulty of the hazards on the region type and not terrain. It is one more thing that the GM must consider, but to me it makes sense that hazards are more about the general malevolence of the region than the terrain type. Like so: Free 12, Border 14, Wild 16, Shadow 18, Dark 20.

I can see why you'd do that. I went with the region type increasing the number of Hazards and the terrain type determinining the difficulty; that way the two different elements both contributed. The Corruption tests associated with Blighted Places are based off of Region Type so I think using Terrain Type for hazard test TN allows it to contribute to the overall 'threat level' of hazards.

Arkat wrote:Other than that, stunning work.

Ta.