Another "New Journey Rules", inspired by AiMe

[Falenthal]

Hello Falenthal,

Here is my feedbak on your new house-rule

First of all, thanks A LOT for taking the time to test and post here. It is really much appreciated.

1) I think there is an issue or missing information or misunderstanding by me in below example
You say :

Each Fatigue test increases the Travel Fatigue points by 4 during Spring-Summer, and 6 during Autumn-Winter.

Each level of success on the Fatigue test reduces the Travel Fatigue points gained by 1.
Example: A Great Success (Success and one 6) during a Medium Journey in Winter will make the hero gain 2 Travel Fatigue points.

Absolutely right, it was a mistake on my behalf: each Fatigue test is calculated separatedly, and 1 point is reduced for each level of success. In this case, the example should read "A Great Success (Success and one 6) during a Short Journey in Winter will make the hero gain 4 Travel Fatigue points."

To add to this, and clarify, a Medium Journey (2 tests) during Spring could result like this:
1st Fatigue test (4 Fatigue points) is resolved with a Great Success -> 2 Fatigue points gained
2nd Fatigue test (4 Fatigue points as well) is resolved with a Simple Success -> 3 Fatigue points gained.

The whole Journey results in 5 Fatigue points for the character.

2) What I like
- Impact of levels of success
- Use of traits reducing the Fatigue gained only by 1
- easy to use (more simple than Rich H house rule) and not very different than TOR raw

Exactly the points I was looking for, so thanks for that input!

3) What I dislike (for my own way of play, not a general jugement)
- 3 Fatigue tests : I prefer having only 1 like in Rich H version. It's better than raw but still too much for me.
- In hazard resolution, i don't like the 2nd point "When a hazard is described, all of the affected heroes can decide to avoid rolling and automatically the whole fellowship gain 1 Fatigue point". I don't find it very "narration-ready". Maybe you could give an example ?

Here's where I need to expand a bit more.

1) Number of Fatigue test: I began my house-rule trying to reduce it to only one Fatigue test roll, but found out that the result was too dependent on a lucky or unlucky single roll. It could led to very weird results, where an experienced character added a lot of Fatigue because of one bad roll during a medium Journey, while a rookie gained less than him. Of course, having more dice to roll increases your chances of being lucky (rolling 6s), but still it felt weird for me. But I'll post below my first draft of "single roll Fatigue tests" to see if you like it better.
Also, think that 3 rolls are only made while on very long journeys (from Esgaroth to the Forest Gate, across Mirkwodd, for instance, is a Medium Journey with only 2 rolls). Most Journeys will be made in shorter legs, thus resulting in 2 or 3 Short Journeys, with encounters, adventures, etc in between.

Allow me to expand a little bit more on how I envision the use of this rules:

A Fellowship wants to travel from Rhosgobel to the East Bight, but going along the southern borders of Mirkwood, not crossing the Narrows of the Forest.
That's a Long Journey (3 Fatigue tests, 3 Hazards), through mainly Shadow Lands (Brown Lands region and East Bight region). So, that should be 3 Fatigue tests at TN18, and minimum 3 Hazards at the same difficulty.

That could be the simple way to put it on numbers.
On real play, I'd first describe the players how they leave Rhosgobel and head south leaving the eaves of Mirkwood to their left, noticing how increasingly darker the forest grows day by day as they approach the Necromancer's lands, etc.
Then I'd ask for a first Fatigue test, and would resolve the first Hazard (adding additional ones, or increasing the difficulty for this one, if Eyes were rolled in the Fatigue tests), making it appropiate for the East Nether Vales (Grim Hawks, the sight of the darkness of Dol Guldur looming over their trip,...).
In fact, I'd probably tweak the numbers of the original Journey calculation: for this first Fatigue test, and also the Hazards, I'd use the Wild Lands difficulty (East Nether Vales region, TN16).
Fatigues would be added, and the outcome of the Hazards would be applied if failed.

Then I'd narrate to the group how they enter the Brown Lands, describe them, and how they affect their bodies and souls, etc.
Then I'd go for the second Fatigue test and Hazard, as before.
Once again, I'd use the TN of the Brown Lands (TN18) for all tests, and explain the Hazards trying to relate them to the Brown Lands region.

As you can imagine, the third Fatigue test and Hazard would be situated in the East Rhovanion-East Bight zone, using the TN of the region of those both with more hexes travelled. If even, I'd use the most difficult region type.

If you would roll all three Fatigue tests one after the other, and resolve all accumulated Hazards after that, then the Journey would be very simplistic and boring.
In this way, although you have more rolls than just one, each time the company rolls and faces a Hazard, you're using the mechanics to show them what type of region and specific dangers they're crossing, and using the rolls and Hazards to make the land more alive than if just rolling once and adding a certain number of Fatigue points.

2) Alternate options for Hazard resolving:
Sorry, I didn't expand here on explanations, because I had discussed them in another thread. You can find it here:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=6495

I'll copy the explanation for this part here, but edited text for clarity:
2) When a Hazard is described, all of the affected heroes can decide to avoid rolling and, automatically, the whole fellowship gains 1 Fatigue point. This should be explained as avoiding to confront the Hazard in some way.
Example: The Hunters are affected by a Hazard. The LM explains that the group is running low on rations and the hunters try to get something fresh. They find a small group of strange black squirrels in Mirkwood, that don't look tasty or nourishing. They might even be sick. Besides, the group is in a dangerous part of Mirkwood and the TN for the test is really high. The Hunters decide to avoid the Hazard and not roll at all: the whole group will be hungry for some days, and therefore increase their Fatigue by 1. But they'll avoid the risk of the Hunter's failing the test and receiving an even worse consequence.

My intention was to give the players more options when confronting a Hazard than just rolling a predetermined skill, without increasing the complexity of the Hazards' rules.

Note : as I said to Rich H, i'm french and my english isn't perfect and I might misunderstand your rule at some points, thus don't hesitate to correct me

Ghorin

I'm also no english native, I'm from Spain. I have to admit that, hadn't you told anything about your nationality, I'd have thought you actually were an english native speaker! But then again, I'm not the best judge on this matter...

[Falenthal]

Wow, long post...

I'll add here my first ideas to solve Journey's with just one roll... and a first draft of a new idea I came by after reading your impressions, Ghorin.

The mechanic is the same as stated before, but the numbers change a bit:

Each Journey adds a fixed amount of Fatigue, depending on the lenght of the Journey and the Season:
Short (Spring-Summer / Autumn-Winter): 5/6
Medium (Spring-Summer / Autumn-Winter): 7/8
Long (Spring-Summer / Autumn-Winter): 9/10

Each level of succes in the Fatigue test reduces the amount of Fatigue gained by 1 point.
Using ponies or boats during more than half the lenght of the Journey reduces the Fatigue gained by 1 point.
Invoking a Trait reduces the Fatigue gained by 1 point (as an ordinary success), but negates the chance to roll the test.

I didn't do lots of tests with this rules, so the numbers could need some retweaking.

*****

NEW IDEA FOR SINGLE ROLL JOURNEYS:

What I dislike about solving a whole Journey with a single roll is that luck gets too much importance, in my opinion.
Thinking about how to improve this granularity in Fatigue gain (or reduction) based on the hero's skill, I came across this idea:

Use the same mechanic as described above, probably with higher numbers for each Fatigue gain.
Reduce the amount of Fatigue gained as described (by level of success and/or by the use of ponies and boats).
**Also, reduce the amount of Fatigue gained 1 point for each point the roll exceeds the TN of the Fatigue test**

Example:

A hero has to do a Medium Journey through Wild Lands, resulting in a Fatigue test of TN16, during Autumn: 8 Fatigue points to start with.

He uses a pony, and rolls a 19 with one 6 in his Fatigue test.

That is 8 Fatigue (Medium Jorney, Autumn) -1 (use of a pony) -2 (Great Success) -3 (Roll of 19 - TN16) = Gains 2 Fatigue points from the Journey.

An Eye would just count as a Zero (and an additional Hazard), and a Gandalf would count as reducing the Fatigue by 2 additional points (on top of everything else). Negating all Fatigue with a Gandalf could be excessive when on a Long Journey or such, in my opinion.

Thoughts?

[Falenthal]

Added to the OP a rule for Healing while travelling.

*Healing while travelling: For simplicity, and after calculating an aproximate average of the healing rate when crossing different types of terrains (that involve more or less days of travel), simply consider the following rule:
- Heal 0 points of Endurance for each 2 hexes travelled if Wounded and untreated.
- Heal 3 points of Endurance for each 2 hexes travelled if Wounded but treated.
- Heal 6 points of Endurance for each 2 hexes travelled if not Wounded.

When playing a Hazard, situate it in an exact hex during the Journey (in the middle of the Long Marshes, when crossing the Forest River,...). Then, you'll be able to count the hexes travelled until that point and allow the players to recover the corresponding Endurance before facing the Hazard.

Still have to work on the Tough Fiber and Elvish Dreams Virtues.

[Falenthal]

Still have to work on the Tough in the Fibre and Elvish Dreams Virtues.

For now, this are my approaches to both Virtues:

*Elvish Dreams:
-Original: At the end of a day of activity, you recover a number of
Endurance points equal to your Wisdom rank. If you then
take a prolonged rest, you recover normally.

-Addition to be usable with this Journey Rules: Every 2 hexes travelled, add 3 times your Wisdom to the amount of Endurance healed.

*Tough in the Fibre:
-Original: When you are travelling, you recover normally (the reduced
recovery rates found at page 163 do not apply to you).

-Addition to be usable with this Journey Rules: Every 2 hexes travelled, recover 3 Endurance points if Wounded and untreated, 6 if Wounded but treated, and 6 plus 3 times your Heart rating if not Wounded.

[DracoDruid]

Greetings fellow elves, dwarves, sages and honorable men!

I might be late for the show, but I like where this is going.

One thing that I might add:

Invoking a trait for just an ordinary success seems a bit on the weak side for something so fundamental to a character.

Might I propose that invoking a trait, instead gives one additional/automatic success grade?

That way, the player can still role for a better success and the trait actually improves on his other capabilities.

Just my 2 tharni...

[Falenthal]

I might be late for the show, but...

A comment is never late. Nor is it early. It is made precisely when it means to.

Invoking a trait for just an ordinary success seems a bit on the weak side for something so fundamental to a character.

Might I propose that invoking a trait, instead gives one additional/automatic success grade?

That would be making a special rule for Traits invokation during Fatigue tests, something that doesn't apply in the rest of the game, and I don't like going that way.
Traits can only give you the opportunity to automatically succeed in an ordinary way, nothing else. And I'd like to keep it that way.

Something to consider is that, personally, I want Journeys to almost always grant some Fatigue, even if it's just a little bit. I don't like that a person can walk for days across the wilderness, sleeping on the ground, and is able to arrive to the goal without any fatigue.
Therefore, with my rules, the best situation than can be had is travelling in summer or spring, with ponies, and rolling an extraordinary success. That's the only case when a hero can do a Journey and get zero Fatigue.

Something that could be changed are the consequences of an ordinary success. I'll try not to get that way, either, by now. But if you'd like to try it, just make it that an ordinary success negates 2 Fatigue points instead of just 1. Every additional level of success negates an additional Fatigue point.
Then, invoking a Trait for an ordinary success would get better benefits.

Does it make sense?

[DracoDruid]

Ah sure, makes sense.

Maybe the trait invocation is something I would prefer to be like I proposed in general.

I think it's more fun that way, but I totally understand that you don't wish to introduce "abnormal" extra-rules for your journey mechanic.

"As much as needed, as less as possible."

[Falenthal]

Maybe the trait invocation is something I would prefer to be like I proposed in general.

Yep, that's another way to go. I think it would make Traits too powerful, but could work at some tables. Better than doing small mini-rules depending on situations.

[Falenthal]

EDIT: Rewrote the optional Hazard resolution rules for better understanding after some tests.

[Falenthal]

Additional option:

*After rolling the Fatigue tests, a hero can "give" his successes over the Ordinary one to one or more companions. A success that is "given" to a companion is substracted from the hero that gives it.

Example: Omac, the Dwarf resolves his Fatigue test and rolls 3 Tengwars, for an Extraordinary Success (only 2 of the Tengwars count towards the quality of the Success). His companions, Otto the Hobbit and Fidulas the elf, fail completely their Fatigue test. Omac decides to take care of his companions and gives one of his Success levels to Otto and the other one to Fidulas. As a result, Omac will pass the Fatigue test with an Ordinary Success, and so will Otto and Fidulas.

Endurance of the Rangers: Whenever you give your levels of success to a companion during a Fatigue test, you don't lose your own successes.

Any thoughts? This rule is, of course, related to the Travel house rules proposed in the first post.