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Falenthal wrote:Hah! I was thinking about Hesitant and Doubtful myself as first Flaws! The very same words came to mind. Your higher two Flaws sound perfect to me, I couldn't have come up with them.

Those first 2/3 were Summerhawk's--just to put the credit where it's due.

Cheers guys, very helpful and glad it's something that has crossed other peoples' minds.

If we went with the "Burden of Command/Responsibility" (Hesitant/Doubtful/Tormented/Despairing) for Leaders then what could we use Glor's "Seduced by Pride" (Boastful/Entitled/Delusional/Paranoid) for instead? Is there an immediate Calling that springs to mind?

Rich H wrote:Cheers guys, very helpful and glad it's something that has crossed other peoples' minds.

If we went with the "Burden of Command/Responsibility" (Hesitant/Doubtful/Tormented/Despairing) for Leaders then what could we use Glor's "Seduced by Pride" (Boastful/Entitled/Delusional/Paranoid) for instead? Is there an immediate Calling that springs to mind?

Perhaps I was drawing too much inspiration from recent developments on our side of the pond.

Rich H wrote:Cheers guys, very helpful and glad it's something that has crossed other peoples' minds.

If we went with the "Burden of Command/Responsibility" (Hesitant/Doubtful/Tormented/Despairing) for Leaders then what could we use Glor's "Seduced by Pride" (Boastful/Entitled/Delusional/Paranoid) for instead? Is there an immediate Calling that springs to mind?

Glor's options resound in my ears more to that of a heir to something, than to an effective leader.
It doesn't feel too far-fetched that wanting to be "restored" to ones rightful place might be a Calling to adventure.

I would try to broaden the view, and not think only of a heir in terms of nobility or titles: maybe your father was the lead hunter of your clan of dunledings, and you want to get the same title during your life. But you need to win it first.
Or even your whole family expects that you, as the elder son, get to enter the noble order of the Knights of Dol Amroth. No one in your family has ever achieved that, but you're expected to be the first to do so, and agree with it.
As a Noldor, you remember how your race fought the Shadow in the past, bringing light and peace with their high powers. Now the Eldar are diminishing in numbers and force, but the Shadow is rising again. You want to rise your brothers again as the main opposing force to the Enemy, and recover your past legacy as the favourite of the Valar.
The Major of the Shire is growing old. You're clever, and good-hearted, and have trodden the four Farthings. Many hobbits have commented that you would be a fair Major, if you just only got a little more "world knowedge".

"Heir" could be too much associated to titles, but has a good sounding. Maybe "Aspirant"? "Inheritor"?

Personality and Customs as Favoured Skill Groups.
Trait: Diplomacy? Negotiator? Personalities-lore? Fame (region)? Contacts?

For the record I like Burden of Responsibility concept a lot more than my own.

I agree, I wish that the Leader Calling had a different Shadow Weakness than the Warden.

Of course, a Leader could be tempted to power, but I think the self doubt is so much cooler. The Warden is acting and serving "alone", or perhaps in their weakness they believe they are alone, and are therefore more likely to feel prideful. So they grasp for power because no one else follows them. They are selfish and ambitious.

The Leader has the same problem (they are too self-centered), but it plays out entirely different. A weak leader is co-dependent. Instead of realizing they must make the best choice they can to serve and help, they overly think about those they are leading, and begin trying to make the most perfect choice (when this is almost never possible, because in the real world if one of two options is clearly better, there is little choice for you, it's easy; the real difficulty in leading is choosing between options that all seem to be good... or between options that all seem to be bad). So they are Hesitant to make a choice, then they begin to Doubt themselves, and undermine others faith in them... then they are Tormented by their previous mistakes and poor choices, decisions become paralzying. Finally in Despair they essentially give up Leadership entirely, but are still trying to please and serve their "followers" who in turn have already lost doubt in their ability to lead.

I like the "Burden of Responsibility" as a name for this as well. It seems to me to work well because for the Warden, the shadow whispers that everyone around the warden is naive and the warden must seize control with his/her greater knowledge and understanding of the situation, to save everyone in spite of themselves. The Leader fears that the darkness of the situation is a result of his/her own poor choices and mistakes. I had not thought about Aragorn, but he does fit this perfectly, and self-doubt does seem to be the shadow weakness displayed in the book. We never really see Aragorn lamenting the folly of others, only doubting himself. "Tormented" is an excellent flaw. Fits Denethor perfectly when we meet him in RotK, with the anguish from Faramir's apparently fatal injury pushing him into a final bout of madness.

We have a winner!

Summerhawk, your idea has won everyone of us.
The only downside to it is that this thread won't beat the Guiness Record of Deadly Archery. Better luck next time.

Falenthal wrote:We have a winner!

Summerhawk, your idea has won everyone of us.
The only downside to it is that this thread won't beat the Guiness Record of Deadly Archery. Better luck next time.

Well I'd say any record achieved ought to go to Rich as it's his thread, and I hadn't thought all the way through this until I saw it, but I'm flattered my half formed thought sparked the creativity of others to carry it through. If you all would like to shoot for the record, I could say something outrageous and min/max-ish to start a fight.

Summerhawk wrote:I like the "Burden of Responsibility" as a name for this as well.

I'm totally ok with not opting for my suggestion, "Curse of Foresight" . . . but "Burden of Responsibility" feels too mundane to me.

We have one curse ("of Vengeance") and two lures ("of Power" and "of Secrets"), and two compound nouns, a "-sickness" and a "-madness".

It's gotta be more gloomy ("gloam-y"?), surely?! For a SHADOW weakness.