AC: Wayward Elves more thematic Virtues and Rewards

[Falenthal]

Regarding "Friendly fire", a concept I'd like to introduce in the mechanic is that, the higher the Shadow points of the WE are, the easier is for him to induce effects on other mortal heroes. The more Shadow he has, the less he cares for other "inferior" races, even if that's not totally consciouss to him (i.e. if the player doesn't play his character that way). That's what Wayward Elves are about. Otherwise, they'd be Mirkwood Elves.

That said, that "friendly fire" shouldn't be triggered by a failed roll, as it is easier to fail a roll with few dice (in this case, with few Shadow points) than the opposite.

Therefore, the mechanic should support that throwing more dice implies a higher chance of triggering the "friendly fire" effect.

Maybe something like "for each 6 rolled on the Succes dice, then...".
Or, probably better: "If an Eye of Sauron is rolled, count the number of 6s on the Success die. For each one, then...".
And calculate a (bad) effect whose power is increased by the number of 6s rolled.

Note: I'd use 6s instead of other numbers because there could be some effect, other Virtue, etc that could allow the character to re-roll one or more Success die. In this case, it would become a tough decision trying to get more 6s that would affect the adversaries, but also the companions. The kind of decisions a Wayward Elf should face.

Regarding the effect, maybe it could be something like:
"If an Eye was rolled (wether the test was succesful or not), every Mortal within hearing range has to compare his Wisdom or Attribute Level with the number of 6s rolled with the Success die. Those with lower Wisdom/Att. Lvl become instantly Miserable".

[Corvo]

(...)
Regarding the effect, maybe it could be something like:
"If an Eye was rolled (wether the test was succesful or not), every Mortal within hearing range has to compare his Wisdom or Attribute Level with the number of 6s rolled with the Success die. Those with lower Wisdom/Att. Lvl become instantly Miserable".

I know you are still in the brainstorming phase, but remember that this mechanic is really skewed, as PCs/NPCs goes:

...compare his Wisdom or Attribute Level with the number of 6s rolled with the Success die. Those with lower Wisdom/Att. Lvl become instantly Miserable"

First point is that Miserable don't apply to opponents (but I'm sure it can be tweaked as Fatigued or something similar).
Second point is that Wisdom and Attribute Lvl. aren't comparable: the first is in the 1-6 range, the second is on the 1-12 range

Edit: expanding on that, I think that such a system is weak against the stronger opponents, so, in a way, it gives a "diminishing return" over the course of a campaign.
It's just me, but I would point toward simulating the WE's unsettling nature with a power that gives a lot of bonus dices, and new ways to use those dices.
Something like "you can spend a bonus dices to automatically escape combat", and/or "you can spend a bonus dice to enthrall a mortal: ignore a failed roll in an encounter"...
(we got a precedent for creative uses of bonus dices in the Lakemen's Water Legs)

[Falenthal]

Thanks for the feedback, Corvo!

First point is that Miserable don't apply to opponents (but I'm sure it can be tweaked as Fatigued or something similar).

I must say that what interests me about this (hypothetical) Virtue is simply to simulate someone with the ability to turn others mad, as faeries do. It should be a fun but also dangerous power, that allows for interesting roleplaying situations, not simple and dull mechanical consequences of pluses or minuses. As the Grim of Aspect Virtue from the Dunledings, or The Speakers of the Elves, or some other Virtues that allow for interesting use tied to the players creativity, not to numerical advantatges.

That said, that's what I find interesting about using Miserable for foes. While Miserable, a foe rolls a Gandalf rune and gets a Bout of Madness. What should happen then? Page 225 of the Revised Book explains what could happen, and gives examples of mad behaviours. Without any effort, they can be adapted to the enemies. Imagine applying Lust to an enemy, that tries to steal something in the middle of a combat instead of hacking and slashing at the heroes. Could be a lot of fun.
In fact, the control of the mad enemy could be given to the players!

Second point is that Wisdom and Attribute Lvl. aren't comparable: the first is in the 1-6 range, the second is on the 1-12 range

That's intentional. I don't consider Wayward Elves to be very powerful, as High Elves could be. Therefore, someone like a Dragon or a Great Orc or a Troll can't be affected by his chants and laughter. Only weaker opponents can be affected by it. But turning 3 Snaga Trackers Miserable, and potentially make them attack their own comrades, is not a capability that can be laughed at.

What I still have to think about is durations: During how much time are the affected characters considered Miserable? As long as the Wayward Elf is present and able to sing/laugh?
Once Miserable, if they have a Bout of Madness, how long do the effects last? Simply one action (one round)? Or as many rounds as the WE's Permanent Shadow, with a minimum of 1 round?

[Falenthal]

In particular, the Noldor Virtue 'Elbereth Gilthoniel'...well, that's reminding the Wayward Elf of the very Valar they decided to Spite. I can see that doing something very bad to any elf who doesn't follow the Calling of the Sea.

The Virtue 'Elbereth Gilthoniel' can be used on Miserable characters, so it would fit well with such effect on heroes on behalf of the Eerie Laughter Virtue.

[Angelalex242]

Hmmm. Bouts of Madness, when they occur, are how you gain flaw producing permanent shadow. If a servant of the enemy gains a 'flaw', it might well be something that 'pollutes their evil.' Maybe a villain who goes mad suddenly finds himself unable to harm children, or can't find it in himself to finish defeated enemies off, or...

This is basically the idea that (wrong universe) Darth Vader gained so many 'flaws' as a Sith Lord that Luke was able to reach him.

[Glorelendil]

Hmmm. Bouts of Madness, when they occur, are how you gain flaw producing permanent shadow. If a servant of the enemy gains a 'flaw', it might well be something that 'pollutes their evil.' Maybe a villain who goes mad suddenly finds himself unable to harm children, or can't find it in himself to finish defeated enemies off, or...

This is basically the idea that (wrong universe) Darth Vader gained so many 'flaws' as a Sith Lord that Luke was able to reach him.

Four Stages of Madness:
Merciful
Forgiving
Generous
Altruistic

[Angelalex242]

Heh. And if those don't sound like flaws, think about what having those flaws would do to an orc!

[Falenthal]

Well, I didn't intend for the adversaries to gain Flaws or Permanent Hope points .
Simply that they suddenly do something that is wild and unexpected, and that he will regret (usually favoring the characters).
That's when all those dark quarrels between tribes, old envys from snagas to orc, lust for another goblin's possessions, etc come out.

Would be fun if the players could take the control of a few enemies for one turn.

[Falenthal]

Feast Clearing [replaces Deadly Archery]
There was a fire in their midst and there were torches fastened to some of the trees round about; but most splendid sight of all: they were eating and drinking and laughing merrily. –Flies and Spiders, The Hobbit

Once per Adventuring phase, when travelling through a Border Land or Wild Land in Mirkwood, the fellowship can rest for a night as if they were taking a prolongued rest in a safe place, thus using the improved recovery rates for Endurance, Fatigue and Wounds.

The fellowship can decide to stay for more days and continue to recover at the increased rate, but each hero will gain 1 point of Shadow for each day above the first.

Regarding this Virtue, look what I've found reading the Adventures in Middle-earth Loremaster's Guide!!
It speaks about places where a Journey could end in safety:

An encampment of Wayward Elves, wandering
the wild. They can supply hospitality unheard of
by Mannish folk even far from home. Elven wine
and waybread restore body and spirit as quickly
as a night in a feather bed!

Touché!