Economic System

[Bocephas]

My system does not have dwarves riding ponies as mounted cavalry (as in fighting from horseback). Ponies are used only for riding/travel (and pack of course). Sorry if that was confusing in my document.

Regarding horses, I purposely tried to make the system generic enough to accommodate cultures that fight from horseback and those that don't. Thus, you will see that my "Courser" can represent a really good riding horse (not afraid of battle, but also not meant to be used as a charger) or a lower grade charger meant to be ridden in combat.

[Terisonen]

In my view, all cultures need pack animals, and most people with some wealth (from any culture) are going to ride when traveling. I agree that many cultures would not fight from horseback.

I'm not sure about Dwarves. Again, I think this is a hard culture to model. But in my system, a Dwarven Master's riding ponies only account for 9 silver out of 224 silver in military spending. So, this can easily be discounted/ignored, if you feel Dwarves should not have riding ponies.

Agree. Sounds (more than) reasonable

For using mounted combat in warfare, sole culture wher'e sure in canon fight from horseback are Rohirrim, may be in some extend people from Gondor, High Elves, but more as individual rather than as a culture in his whole. It sound also reasonnable to assume some of Easterling also fight mounted.

[Otaku-sempai]

My system does not have dwarves riding ponies as mounted cavalry (as in fighting from horseback). Ponies are used only for riding/travel (and pack of course). Sorry if that was confusing in my document.

just blame me for that. I was riffing more off of Terisonen's post than responding to your own document. I do see Dwarves riding ponies, at least sometimes during long journeys; just not for the purpose of mounted combat. That's all I was trying to say really.

[Bocephas]

No problem. Table of contents added. See updated document in first post.

[Terisonen]

Thanks! It would be a huge aid to peruse your document.

[feld]

First post: This is an excellent aid for me! I'm just starting to contemplate a Wilderland campaign and this sort of information is useful but sadly lacking in the core material.

Thank you!!!

[Bocephas]

You’re welcome. Glad you find it helpful.

[Timmity Took]

What I really like about Treasure in ToR is how abstract it is and that it actually counts for something that underlines your character and the gaming experience. That is good game design! Changing that is not for me.
In other games it might work, but not in this one. Sorry :-/
Maybe your should design your own game where this kind of ecconomic system fits
You seem to have the creative energy for it!

When I see Game of Thrones I don`t wan`t to know how many coins Tyrion Lannister has in his purse,
That wouldn`t enhance the story in any way for me at all. He is Rich, that is enough.
I DO need to know that Arya Stark has one coin in her pocket though, but I guess that is a wondrous artefact...

[Kurt]

When I see Game of Thrones I don't wan't to know how many coins Tyrion Lannister has in his purse, that wouldn't enhance the story in any way for me at all. He is Rich, that is enough.

You don't actually see the Lannister's gold their vaults, you're making an assumption about his wealth because he says he is wealthy. This assumption is given substance once we see the size of the Lannister army, the clothes and luxuries the family can afford, the grand architecture and majesty of both Kings Landing and Casterly Rock, and the power behind Tywin Lanister's command.

Bocephas system helps a Loremaster understand with some sort of realism the demographics of a population. What income from how many people would need to be collected to afford the army that Lannister has at his disposal? How many crafters (blacksmiths, woodwrights) and farmers would be needed to keep the army functional and fed? You get to use this information when telling the players what they see/hear/smell as they walk through the city or village, adding life to the story by offering the players a richer experience.

It's much more effective to show someone rather than tell someone and preparing a one page sheet with a little extra detail on a village can help the players visualise that scene just a little bit better.

Cheers,
Kurt

[feld]

What I really like about Treasure in ToR is how abstract it is and that it actually counts for something that underlines your character and the gaming experience. That is good game design! Changing that is not for me.
In other games it might work, but not in this one. Sorry :-/
Maybe your should design your own game where this kind of ecconomic system fits
You seem to have the creative energy for it!

<sigh> Success needs no explanation but failure requires 42 words. My failure in communication now requires a lengthy explanation.

I regret, in retrospect, my careless use of the words "sadly lacking" a few posts above. My (rather low) Insight skill belatedly reveals that I might have raised some hackles with implied criticism of C7's excellent game. It wasn't my intent, as I now find myself compelled to explain. Just terribly chosen words on my part.

To be clear, I believe ToR is the best representation of Middle Earth in an RPG to date. In particular the abstraction of the Treasure mechanics is, as Timmity says, great game design; seamlessly meshing mechanics with the setting. No criticism of that C7 decision was meant by my words.

The word "sadly" really should have applied to my own knowledge, not the game. I know Tolkien's mythological and professional writing pretty well for a person who's not a Tolkien academic. I am very comfortable, as LM, if I need to come up with a piece of magic, or a plot point that ties into the history of Middle Earth, or quietly connect some random evil to Sauron's grand strategic plan for the Third Age.

However, much of what as LM I will be called to do in my games is provide a consistent compelling depiction of day to day life in what are basically medieval societies. Sadly, while I am the victim of an expensive education and have many highly trained skills, medieval history is not among them. I don't really have the *slightest* clue how most of the population of Middle Earth gets their daily bread, how much farmland they might need to support that, and how many people it would take to work it.

The research to get the sort of knowledge I wanted is a non-trivial task. I should know because I was trying to do it when I found this thread. Answers to questions like, "How should I describe the fields around Dale to my characters as they approach the place? How big are they? How far away from the city might they extend? How many people will they see roughly on their travels?" Tolkien I think knew the answers to questions like these instinctively from a lifetime of walking through largely agrarian landscapes and his long study of history.

The best I could do was: "green, lush", "big", "a fair distance", and "a few." I figured answers like that would get boring for my players pretty fast.

Enter the house rules in this thread like Galadriel's glass; light for me in the darkest of places. This is a laboriously organized and tabulated result of what must have been countless hours of painful research skillfully condensed into a rapidly searchable form. That the kind soul of the OP has made them freely available for nothing but a "thank you" and a word of encouragement is a testimony to both their generosity and the great community that has arisen around this fine game. Do I plan to tell my players how many acres of worked farm land surround Dale? No. Do I want to have at least a rough idea when I describe the landscape. Yes.

So, I again apologize for seeming critical of C7's work. I assure you, that wasn't my intention. I was just sad that more detailed "mundane" information wasn't in the ToR books because my own deficiencies were going to lead to a tremendous amount of detailed research. Which the community in the person of Bocephas has saved me.

They may not "fit" in Timmity's ToR game but I assure you that they're welcome in mine.

<Sigh> That was more than 42 words - hopefully they were encouraging.

v/r
feld