A few questions about Stances

[vahnfable]

Hello there!

New user here, long time stalker though.

I bought The One Ring last year but I didn't have a chance to read it until now. I finished the combat rules and I've got a few questions on my mind.

The example provided in the book tells about a fellowship fighting some attercops.

1) When the archer, Trotter I believe, is hit by the spider (because of the jump ability), is Trotter still considered in rearguard?

2) If he is not considered in rearguard anymore, does that mean a player in Defensive Stance can take an attack in his stead?

3) If he is considered in rearguard, must the GM spend hate again for the pider to attack the archer?

The next question is a bit of an abstraction hole that I've found. I'd rather play a narrative game than a rules-heavy one, but sometimes too much abstraction makes reality explode on my mind so hard that I fail to find even a reasonable explanation for any player in my table.

I usually play with a group of players that like to protect themselves, intercepting attacks and so on. The thing is: considering the questions above, my logic tells me that the archer will no longer be in rearguard because he has an enemy hitting him. I may be wrong about this though.

The tricky part in that example is that, the archer, cannot change his position due to the spider's web attack.
If he is not considered in rearguard anymore he was far away a second ago (he cannot move), would you allow the Defensive Stanced player to defend the archer or would you tell the player in melee that he has to spend one round to reach the archer?
If he is considered in rearguard (It would be a bit difficult for me to understand I think...) and he has a spider attacking him, what could a player in Defensive Stance (or any Stance) do if they want to run towards the archer to protect him?

Thanks in advance

[Falenthal]

Great Leap and, specially, when combined with Seize Victim, are probably topmost in our "We want the developers to clarify this!!!!" list.

Here's a thread about it:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=802

The general consensus is:
Great Leap is a one-use ability. After the creature's attack, it returns to melee stances (or its own Rearward stance if the enemies are more than the heroes), and the Rearward hero stays in Rearward.

[SpottedBill]

Welcome to the game!

1) Yes, Trotter is in rearward stance and could not normally be attacked by a melee attack from the enemy.

2) The archer is still in rearward stance. A character in defensive stance can declare to defend a companion in forward or open stance. They cannot, however, attack in their stead.

3) Yes, the GM must spend more Hate to do the special attack again.

I'm not quite sure about what you're asking in the last part. In general, stances reflect how a character acts in battle. He can for example charge into battle like a madman (forward) or move cautiously (defensive), or perhaps use the cover provided by his companions to use a ranged weapon (rearward).

If your player clearly stated that he stays far back to shoot his bow (for some advantage detailed in the narrative), it might be fitting to require an Athletics test from the companion dashing to his aid. If he fails, running to his friend uses up his action for the round.

[SpottedBill]

Great Leap is a one-use ability. After the creature's attack, it returns to melee stances (or its own Rearward stance if the enemies are more than the heroes), and the Rearward hero stays in Rearward.

This is how I've run it as well.

[vahnfable]

Great Leap and, specially, when combined with Seize Victim, are probably topmost in our "We want the developers to clarify this!!!!" list.

Here's a thread about it:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=802

Omg I missed that... I searched but I didn't really read what I found

I'm sorry now for making a new thread about it... Anyways, thank you

rearward

It seems there is a slight difference with the Spanish word... ashamed though

I'm not quite sure about what you're asking in the last part. In general, stances reflect how a character acts in battle. He can for example charge into battle like a madman (forward) or move cautiously (defensive), or perhaps use the cover provided by his companions to use a ranged weapon (rearward).

Actually... I was asking because the scene on my mind was running a bit differently. If a spider makes a jump that allows it to attack the archer in the rearward, my logic says it will stay there trying to kill him. If you imagine the scene as if it was real, it makes more sense for the spider to be in melee with the archer than to use that ability and go back to its previous position.
I could see it happening if the Archer could move, he could simply narrate that rolls and runs out of the way after being attacked and remains far in rearward stance.

The problem with the way I imagined that scene was that if that spider was considered to be in melee then the Archer could not be considered to be in rearward stance anymore, as it had one enemy hitting him.
What Falenthal said makes sense mechanically, not logically (in this case because the archer cannot move), but he also said it was not entirely explained.

[amajo]

rearward

It seems there is a slight difference with the Spanish word... ashamed though

I'm not quite sure about what you're asking in the last part. In general, stances reflect how a character acts in battle. He can for example charge into battle like a madman (forward) or move cautiously (defensive), or perhaps use the cover provided by his companions to use a ranged weapon (rearward).

Actually... I was asking because the scene on my mind was running a bit differently. If a spider makes a jump that allows it to attack the archer in the rearward, my logic says it will stay there trying to kill him. If you imagine the scene as if it was real, it makes more sense for the spider to be in melee with the archer than to use that ability and go back to its previous position.
I could see it happening if the Archer could move, he could simply narrate that rolls and runs out of the way after being attacked and remains far in rearward stance.

The problem with the way I imagined that scene was that if that spider was considered to be in melee then the Archer could not be considered to be in rearward stance anymore, as it had one enemy hitting him.
What Falenthal said makes sense mechanically, not logically (in this case because the archer cannot move), but he also said it was not entirely explained.

Remember that the stances are combat attitudes, not combat positions. Being in forward doesn't mean that the hero is all the way in the front; it means that the hero is more aggressive and reckless in the way he fights. That said, for Rearward you do need to be "away from the fray", but doesn't have to mean that you're very far away. As SpottedBill wrote you could simply be using the cover provided by your Companions, without necessarily being 20 meters away from the enemies.

[Falenthal]

As SpottedBill wrote you could simply be using the cover provided by your Companions, without necessarily being 20 meters away from the enemies.

Or not even that...

[amajo]

As SpottedBill wrote you could simply be using the cover provided by your Companions, without necessarily being 20 meters away from the enemies.

Or not even that...

Wait a minute...

...is that Gríma disguised as an elf in the background?

[vahnfable]

Remember that the stances are combat attitudes, not combat positions.

Yeah... I realized I made that mistake. After reading a bit about it on a few threads, I think my problem is solved .

I'll probably go with the "forced into defensive stance" solution as it makes more sense to me.

Thanks for everything!

[amajo]

Remember that the stances are combat attitudes, not combat positions.

Yeah... I realized I made that mistake. After reading a bit about it on a few threads, I think my problem is solved .

I'll probably go with the "forced into defensive stance" solution as it makes more sense to me.

Thanks for everything!

You can also imagine it as the hero staying in a Rearward stance either because he makes an effort to stay away from the fray himself, because his companions step in between he and his enemies to allow him to keep shooting, or a combination of both. After all, if you still have at least two companions in close combat stances, they could impede the spider from *staying* close to him, unless the spider jumps over them again.
There can also be situations where it would make more sense to leave the hero engaged with the spider because of terrain, positions, space etc. In that case, the Loremaster can determine that the hero can't assume a Rearward stance anymore and must choose a close combat stance instead.