What is the situation in Mordor when Sauron is gone?

[Timmity Took]

What is going on in Mordor when Sauron is defeated, driven away or believed to be destroyed?

Especially during the time before he returned in the 3rd age? What was the situation and in 2946 when the published game setting begins?

- Who rules?
- Who lives there?
- What is culture and society like?
- What do the rest of Middle-Earth know and think?
- Would it make sense to use a messenger
of Lugburz in an adventure before 2951?

[Otaku-sempai]

I don't have a lot of definitive answers, but I think we can make some pretty good guesses. We know that the Nazgûl were not destroyed at the end of the Second Age. They probably fled to the North, East and South to the territories that they ruled in Sauron's name in order to re-consolidate their power and wait for Sauron to once more take shape. The Lord of the Nazgûl, for example, might have withdrawn to Gundabad (later to found the Kingdom of Angmar).

When Barad-dûr fell the Men of the West seem to have failed to take charge of the lands of Mordor; that might have been a critical mistake. Sauron's servants (the Nine, Variags, Black Númenóreans, and others) must have kept the local population enslaved, working the fields of Nurn and maintaining some form of infrastructure in anticipation of the Dark Lord's eventual return.

One or more of the Nazgûl might have maintained control of Mordor, but there were likely lesser servants that could have acted as Steward in their stead. Slaves and farmer-slaves might have included Easterlings, Haradrim, lower-caste Variags, captive prisoners, etc. It has been speculated that at least some of the Entwives might have been included as such captives. For the ruling class of Mordor, things might have been pretty good while Sauron was away. They could consolidate power for themselves and might have developed factions and rivalries. We don't get a good glimpse inside much of Mordor but there must have been centers of trade and industry on the shores of the inland Nurnen Sea. Such places might have become snake pits of decadent excess and corruption that would have made Fritz Lieber's Lankhmar seem like a monastery by comparison.

The rest of Middle-earth probably turned a blind eye to the goings on within the borders of Mordor, not wanting to know. However, there were probably a few spies who infiltrated the lands from time to time. Aragorn might even have been one of them in the days of his journeys and errantries--or at least at some time between TA 2980 and 3001.

[Mim]

Otaku-sempai: You provide an excellent answer, as always.

You're right and Mordor opens a vast vista for LMs, despite the grim prospect of envisioning heroes attempting to survive a journey against those odds.

I enjoy Michael Martinez's blogs on some of the servants of the Enemy, and here are some examples:

https://middle-earth.xenite.org/who-was ... the-rings/

https://middle-earth.xenite.org/how-old ... of-sauron/

https://middle-earth.xenite.org/is-the- ... of-sauron/

[Otaku-sempai]

I enjoy Michael Martinez's blogs on some of the servants of the Enemy...

Thanks for those links, Mim. They do provide food for thought and speculation! It is also instructive to look at the maps of Mordor from Journey's & Maps. We see several roads in Mordor, presumably built primarily for military use. They also give us hints at where some of the key strongholds and population centers might be located. Roads intersect on the western and northern ends of the Sea of Nurnen. Trade routes meet near the eastern border of Mordor in East Nurn. And might there be a guarded secret pass where one road ends at the Mountains of Shadow south of the Nurnen Sea? There are doubtless a pair of fortresses on the southern end of the Plain of Gorgoroth, and at least a checkpoint with an outpost south of them where the Nurn Road forks.

We know nothing of the great plain of Lithlad on the east side of Mordor other than it must be nearly as empty and desolate as the Plateau of Gorgoroth despite being ringed by two rivers that feed into the Sea of Nurnen on Lithlad's southern border. I am imagining deep canyons that keep the rivers from nourishing much of the surrounding lands.

[atgxtg]

I suspect that Mordor was probably left abandoned. It was a wasteland infested with orcs, trolls and other evil things. The forces of the Alliance probably did some mop up where they could, and place some fortifications and troops along the borders to keep a watch against orcs and such. probably much like how things are near the Misty Mountains.

I also believe that the that the Nazgul didn't reappear on Middle Earth until Sauron reappeared around 1050TA. That is about when the Witch King seems to

The Witch King seems to reppear around 1300TA. Now it's possible, even probable, that he was around a bit earlier (1050 is seems right to me), and kept a very low profile to protect Sauron existence from being discovered.

[Otaku-sempai]

At the very least, the Nazgûl were laying low until round TA 1300 as far as the Men of the West knew. It's hard to say what they were up to behind the scenes, earlier in the Third Age. The Wise did suspect the presence of at least one of them as the Necromancer in Dol Guldur, not realizing that it was Sauron already returned. Tolkien never wrote much about whatever intelligence services were maintained by Gondor or Arnor. Scouts probably kept watch on the borders of Mordor, and I'm sure that rumors coming out of foreign lands were noted; but I don't know that spies ever tried to infiltrate those lands (except perhaps in Harondor and Umbar).

[Timmity Took]

Tolkien never wrote much about whatever intelligence services were maintained by Gondor or Arnor. Scouts probably kept watch on the borders of Mordor, and I'm sure that rumors coming out of foreign lands were noted; but I don't know that spies ever tried to infiltrate those lands (except perhaps in Harondor and Umbar).

What about intelligence agents of Mordor? Would a Messenger of Lugburz be likely to encounter outside of Mordor, say in Mirkwood and Wilderland, in TA 2946?

[Halbarad]

Yes, I reckon they could be.

Delivering messages from whoever is in charge in Lugburz, about the state of play there, to the boss in Dol Guldur.

[Timmity Took]

Yes, I reckon they could be.

Delivering messages from whoever is in charge in Lugburz, about the state of play there, to the boss in Dol Guldur.

Don't you think Sauron is in charge in Lugburz after his false defeat as the necromancer in Dol Guldur in 2941? And who is ruling Dol Guldur then? Isn't it abandoned for a while?
Thanks for your thoughts!

[Halbarad]

Sorry, that was down to a misreading. The scenario I describe refers to the period prior to 2941TA.

After 2951TA the Messenger of Lugburz has a very clearly defined role.

The years in between are a bit more complicated, as you have noted.

I suppose the need for a Messenger during this period might be more around information gathering and sowing disinformation rather than delivering Sauron’s orders.