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Rich H wrote: The Hope economy is pretty broken anyway when you consider how the Fellowship Hope pool is refreshed, at the end of a game session, which is something I removed as it's such a poor mechanism for refreshing Hope - ie, there's no literary or in-game driver for it occurring and a session is of variable length. I really dislike such artefacts within game system mechanics.

I experimented with several options before setting for the simpler one, refreshing the pool at each game session.

An option you might try is to have a larger pool (# of heroes multiplied by 2, or even by 3?), and have it refresh exclusively (but automatically) at the following Fellowship phase. It is very much like one of the options we tried during development. I like it, as it enforces the idea of the Fellowship phase, named as such for a reason...

I am of course very contrary to have both the refreshing of the pool at each session AND a Fellowship phase undertaking letting you recover Hope...

Btw, I really like the Inspiration roll from your optional rules document! So much that I use a somewhat simpler version in my games (it is always a Wisdom roll, made when experiencing 'life-affirming events', such as many you list in the document).

Francesco

Francesco wrote:An option you might try is to have a larger pool (# of heroes multiplied by 2, or even by 3?), and have it refresh exclusively (but automatically) at the following Fellowship phase. It is very much like one of the options we tried during development. I like it, as it enforces the idea of the Fellowship phase, named as such for a reason...

I like that idea. I'd probably go with x3 given the length of adventures and my sessions.

Currently I've removed the Fellowship Pool refreshing at the end of each session and add points within the adventure where it refreshes based on literary milestones - achievements, battles won, etc. It takes a bit of work to balance those points but to be honest most scenarios are structured in such a way so they are easy to identify (if using a pre-written adventure) or add (if building your own).

Francesco wrote:I am of course very contrary to have both the refreshing of the pool at each session AND a Fellowship phase undertaking letting you recover Hope...

I definitely agree.

Francesco wrote:Btw, I really like the Inspiration roll from your optional rules document! So much that I use a somewhat simpler version in my games (it is always a Wisdom roll, made when experiencing 'life-affirming events', such as many you list in the document).

Thank you! The bulk of that part was written by 'Dankers' I believe. I think he created them as he was running a game for just one player but I think they really work for larger groups as well.

Rich H wrote: Currently I've removed the Fellowship Pool refreshing at the end of each session and add points within the adventure where it refreshes based on literary milestones - achievements, battles won, etc. It takes a bit of work to balance those points but to be honest most scenarios are structured in such a way so they are easy to identify (if using a pre-written adventure) or add (if building your own).

I read about that in the document too. My problem with that is that I rarely play pre-written adventures, or prepare much in advance, so it's a bit complicated to identify the relevant 'milestone' on the fly.

Francesco

Francesco wrote:I read about that in the document too. My problem with that is that I rarely play pre-written adventures, or prepare much in advance, so it's a bit complicated to identify the relevant 'milestone' on the fly.

Yeah, that is a problem with the rule. A nice way around it is to allow the players to narrate such a refresh... They often remind me in my pre-written games. I guess pre-written, prepared, or non-prepared games share many natural high points etc so it's just a case of identifying them as they happen. Obviously, too many and that could upset balance but an LM can always veto a refresh of the Fellowship Hope Pool.

Rich H wrote:

Francesco wrote:Btw, I really like the Inspiration roll from your optional rules document! So much that I use a somewhat simpler version in my games (it is always a Wisdom roll, made when experiencing 'life-affirming events', such as many you list in the document).

Thank you! The bulk of that part was written by 'Dankers' I believe. I think he created them as he was running a game for just one player but I think they really work for larger groups as well.

Thanks for the plug, Rich!

Yes, originally house-ruled to accommodate a series of solo-adventures for an old friend. Without a pool to draw from, the inspiration tests are certainly important. (An interesting side-effect was that the player soon started suggesting extra corruption tests when faced with events that might trouble his character.)

Dankers wrote:Thanks for the plug, Rich!

Thoroughly deserved, fella. I do try to point out the actual author of anything in my Rules Collection when someone mentions element of it that they really like. At the end of the day I only put it together (although I did write some bits) - the real creative forces behind it were the authors of the rules. Mind you, I do think I did a bloody nice job putting it together!!!

Rich H wrote:, I do think I did a bloody nice job putting it together!!!

Indeed, Rich! You are a heckuva binding agent of said rules miscellany. Unmatched! 4 skill ranks even!

I've been following the discussion here with great interest since I started the thread.

And I've been doing some thinking. Disregarding any house rules it seems like the system as written promotes a gradual decline in Hope. Unless the Players keep a very strict regimen, you will only ever be able to spend 1 Hope per session on average... yet you have a Score of maybe ca. 10-20 (depending on Attribute and Culture).

And you will certainly feel the "need" to use it especially in the beginning of your adventuring career.

Now this leads to a question... how long (roughly) will players last?

It almost feels like a gradually decline is intended and it would also be in line with the atmosphere of the books so I don't mind this all that much. But it becomes quite hard from a "resource management" point of view to get a feeling for how fast this decline will/was intended to go.

If I over spend 2 or 3 points of Hope one session that I will not be able to get back... how bad is that in game-terms?

It also feels a little counter-intuitive to give me a stat-score of 18 in something but then more or less punish me if I use it more than 1 point per session. It just feels weird.... unless the idea is that every player will gradually decline and get fewer and fewer points left as the campaign goes by.... that would make sense, but also raises the question; "How many adventures will they last?"

Some games (like WFRP) give you Fate Points you can use.... you have maybe 1-3 points and you know that the resource is scares and you get maybe 1 or 2 more point when the adventure ends.

In others (like Savage Worlds) give you Bennies or Hero Points you have 1-4 points but you know that they refresh each session automatically.

In both these cases you have quite a firm grasp of "how rare" these points are and how frequently you are expected (from a mechanics point of view) to use them.

In this game.... you (can) have quite a pool like 18 points.... but you only regain 1-2 per session... that makes it harder to understand or measure.

Just some thoughts from me.

/wolf

Do Rangers of the North and High-elves of Rivendell restore hope points in anyway? They can't spend fellowship points and I can't remember anywhere else in the rules where it says how hope can be regained... other than saving fellowship focus or seeing them unhurt at the end of a session.

Timmity Took wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:35 pm

Do Rangers of the North and High-elves of Rivendell restore hope points in anyway? They can't spend fellowship points and I can't remember anywhere else in the rules where it says how hope can be regained... other than saving fellowship focus or seeing them unhurt at the end of a session.

The Rangers of the North are this really weird mix. You have these high attribute: 17 instead of 14. But since you cannot rely on the Fellowship Pool you can only maintain your Hope balance and use Hope when you try to help your Fellowship Focus (and get the point back immediately) or keep your Focus safe all session. Else you just wear down quicker than any other member of the Fellowship. You can spend 4 points more during adding previous experience but gain experience slower than others in your Fellowship. Endurance and Hope have solid base scores, and if combined with a high Heart score the character starts very formidably.

So, I have to wonder: Is it really all that great playing a Ranger? Having a high attribute and then not using it... meh. A high Wits score will then mostly matter for the Parry, a high Heart for the added Endurance and Hope, and a high Body will increase the Damage rating. Nothing to sneeze at, given that on average will be 1 harder to hit, do 1 more point of damage for each a great and extraordinary success, and generally being a bit more sturdy...

Also, High Elves are set to deal with Shadow in a different way than other players.

It's all fine in terms of game balance, but how Rangers supposedly adventure for 30 years and High Elves live hundreds of years and then have a potential to dwindle so fast in a few adventure phases with bad rolls... don't know. Feels a bit unsatisfactory to me. Especially the Hope penalty of the Ranger seems... rather strong.

Now, if I understand the other rules right both cultures still start with a 2/1 rating distribution in Valour and Wisdom but have a harder time raising it. I might have missed something here, but that hardly seems to reflect experienced characters to me...

I guess it's hard to balance these...