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Vartholkur wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:14 pm

Soooo. Why are people so sure that the union of elves and men is so restricted? Its certainly rare in the text - there are three mentioned, but there is no textual certainty about it not happening more.

I'd certainly assume it is a very rare occasion - but there is nothing that excludes Silvian or Avari from hooking up with men and women.

So I am not allowing it for player characters but I am using this frame to create a mysterious long-lived NPC.

I think that I would allow Man/Elf unions between players, but only after figuring out how I want Half-elves to work within my game. Long-lived but mortal might be the way to go, at least where a Wood-elf/East-elf is a parent. I might even extend that to having a Sinda parent.

Otaku-sempai wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:45 pm

I think that I would allow Man/Elf unions between players, but only after figuring out how I want Half-elves to work within my game. Long-lived but mortal might be the way to go, at least where a Wood-elf/East-elf is a parent. I might even extend that to having a Sinda parent.

Sounds fair to me! I'd be totally interested in the way this plays out.

The NPC half-elf I created lives among men, travels widely, and collects unusual and beautiful items. The party has learned that he is very old, although he still looks to be in his 30's. They are super suspicious of him. I am still not sure what I am doing with this character, but their suspicions are energizing them.

A slight digression: I don't have any of the core D&D 5e books, but I notice that Half-elves are not listed as a player race in either the SRD-OGL document or the Player Basic Rules pdf. I only noticed because I was wondering what lifespan they are granted with in 5e. D&D 3e noted: "A half-elf reaches majority at age 20 and can live to be over 180 years old." That seems like a reasonable minimum for Half-elves in-game, though I can see going up to 500 years, the lifespan of Elros (or much more if they don't simply default to 'mortal'; after all, at the time of the War of the Ring the sons of Elrond were around 2,880 years old).

Half-Elves are hardly on occurence in Middle-Earth: they are very special individual and cannot ever be considered by a culture. And they must choose to be mortal or immortal. Lifespan of Half-Elves are in the realm of individual choice. I would not personnally let a player be an half-elf. It's not the place of that kind of characters in Middle Earth.

Terisonen wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:51 pm

Half-Elves are hardly on occurence in Middle-Earth: they are very special individual and cannot ever be considered by a culture. And they must choose to be mortal or immortal. Lifespan of Half-Elves are in the realm of individual choice. I would not personnally let a player be an half-elf. It's not the place of that kind of characters in Middle Earth.

That is all true for the Peredhil. However, Professor Tolkien did leave us evidence with the existence of Prince Imrahil of one or more Half-elves that might not have fit that template. We don't know even a fraction of the story involving the Man/Elf union(s) of Dol Amroth; the details might be very different than you suppose. What's true for the children of Elrond might not hold for the child of a Barding hero and a Wood-elf of Mirkwood. Don't let your preconceptions set your mind in concrete.

We would not need a new Heroic Culture for Half-elf heroes; they would belong to the Culture of one of their parents or even incorporate elements of both.

In any case, it's inappropriate to insist that Loremasters can't run their campaign as best as they see fit.

In my game, it is the children of a Woodman PC and an Elf of Mirkwood that I’m trying to sort out. True, one of those children may one day become the player himself, but who knows.

Currently I’m still leaning towards allowing the player to choose between the two Cultural Blessings and making their lifespan random. Something along the line of rolling on the feat die and assigning a value. Eye = mortal all the way to Gandalf = immortal, with all the values in between ranging from 150 years to 500 years.

In this way, each child would be unique. Bear with me, I’m still brainstorming here.

Agnot, I'm not sure I would resolve the question exactly that way, but it works for you and it's pretty reasonable.

If the Op is looking for general opinions about Half Elves alongside 'official guidance' it seems to me that Half Elves would be extremely rare as a playable culture. Heroic where they occur in canon yes, but rare. Personally, and as a parallel point, I would go as far as saying Hobbits as playable cultural hero would be just about as close to the same level of rarity (and they seem rather mechanically speaking overpowered to me).

Half elves would lend themselves better to NPC's occurring as Mana-personalities similar to other 'higher order' famous characters (including Elves). More grounded 'typical' characters are just safer and easier to explain as humans with common features (including the Rangers here) without getting into too many unforeseen or difficult conundrums. I suspect however this is the difference where some LM's would like to get further beyond the well-trodden path of canon.

Of course it seems a given that each LM will want to adapt and include as they see fit to imagine their version of Tolkien so a rationale that makes sense has been pitched throughout the thread but I'm not sure we need official guidelines. It seems developing one's own way with 'other options' is half the fun of this system. I'd much prefer the 'officials' keep to what they have already been dedicating themselves to so far with the fab supplements, region guides and adventures. Extra 'bling' is for the LM's creative/play principle!

Matt Clark wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:14 pm

If the Op is looking for general opinions about Half Elves alongside 'official guidance' it seems to me that Half Elves would be extremely rare as a playable culture.

Well, as a Culture they shouldn't exist at all. A Half-elf should belong to the Culture of one of the parents, just as Elrond and his children all belong to the Heroic Culture: High Elves of Rivendell. Half-elf would be a template to be applied like a Virtue or a Distinctive Feature to a member of an already existing Culture, though perhaps a label like Elven-blooded would work better (say, for example, as a Cultural Virtue for Men of the Southern Fiefs (of Gondor)). Maybe it should even be relegated to merely a Background option; that would minimize its impact.

And, yes, they should remain rare (in my opinion), especially as Player-heroes.

Otaku-sempai wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:18 pm

Terisonen wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:51 pm

Half-Elves are hardly on occurence in Middle-Earth: they are very special individual and cannot ever be considered by a culture. And they must choose to be mortal or immortal. Lifespan of Half-Elves are in the realm of individual choice. I would not personnally let a player be an half-elf. It's not the place of that kind of characters in Middle Earth.

That is all true for the Peredhil. However, Professor Tolkien did leave us evidence with the existence of Prince Imrahil of one or more Half-elves that might not have fit that template. We don't know even a fraction of the story involving the Man/Elf union(s) of Dol Amroth; the details might be very different than you suppose. What's true for the children of Elrond might not hold for the child of a Barding hero and a Wood-elf of Mirkwood. Don't let your preconceptions set your mind in concrete.

We would not need a new Heroic Culture for Half-elf heroes; they would belong to the Culture of one of their parents or even incorporate elements of both.

In any case, it's inappropriate to insist that Loremasters can't run their campaign as best as they see fit.

Well, that's my thinking. But everybody must play the kind they are pleased, of course.