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torus wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:25 pm

This all depends on what diameter you use for Arda, as besides local topography and obscuration by clouds, the curvature of the planetary surface is the main limitation on visibility. I suppose people are assuming the same diameter as Earth today?

Middle-Earth is our Earth, just in the very, very distant past. At least from what I remember of what Tolkien said about it.

Enevhar Aldarion wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:09 pm

Middle-Earth is our Earth, just in the very, very distant past. At least from what I remember of what Tolkien said about it.

Or at least a mythical version of our distant past--somewhat like the Greek Heroic Age, but about 6000 years ago.

Enevhar Aldarion wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:09 pm

torus wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:25 pm

This all depends on what diameter you use for Arda, as besides local topography and obscuration by clouds, the curvature of the planetary surface is the main limitation on visibility. I suppose people are assuming the same diameter as Earth today?

Middle-Earth is our Earth, just in the very, very distant past. At least from what I remember of what Tolkien said about it.

Yes but it changed shape on more than one occasion, so one would be entitled to make a different assumption if one wanted. But I agree, and used the same diameter when I did similar calculations.

This thread makes me pretty happy.

Next up: an estimation of how much land mass was lost when the undying lands were removed, and the concomitant reduction in planetary radius, and from there a recalculated force of gravity and how that would affect a range of things, from metallurgical stability to the design of gaming dice.

Recommend including Dol Guldur in your table of distance to the horizon calculations, unless I missed it and it's there already. I'm not aware of any mention of its height in the primary or secondary sources. I'd defer to Fondstad or MERP for that.

Glorelendil wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:05 am

Next up: an estimation of how much land mass was lost when the undying lands were removed, and the concomitant reduction in planetary radius, and from there a recalculated force of gravity and how that would affect a range of things, from metallurgical stability to the design of gaming dice.

But when Aman was removed from Arda, new lands were added at the same time. Iluvatar is one step ahead of you on the gravity issue.

Stormcrow wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:15 am

Glorelendil wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:05 am

Next up: an estimation of how much land mass was lost when the undying lands were removed, and the concomitant reduction in planetary radius, and from there a recalculated force of gravity and how that would affect a range of things, from metallurgical stability to the design of gaming dice.

But when Aman was removed from Arda, new lands were added at the same time. Iluvatar is one step ahead of you on the gravity issue.

Sneaky bugger.

feld wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:49 am

Recommend including Dol Guldur in your table of distance to the horizon calculations, unless I missed it and it's there already. I'm not aware of any mention of its height in the primary or secondary sources. I'd defer to Fondstad or MERP for that.

MERP (Mirkwood South) describes Dol Guldur/Amon Lanc at 1696 m (1360 m above surrounding lands, which includes hills up to 450 m) -alas MERP doesn't mention a TTS (TrueTolkienSource) for this info
At 1696 m high the cone of the extinct vulcano would be visible up to 147 km.

Halbarad wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:37 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sl ... 624718.jpg

I think that Slemish Mountain in Northern Ireland is a good representation for the Carrock. I live about 12 miles from it and it’s visible from anything up to 20 miles away, depending on the direction you are approaching it from. I would guess that the Carrock is visible for maybe 3 hexes east towards the forest, a similar number to the south and north along the river valley and two to the west as some of the foothills of the mountains may be as high.

You are lucky to live near such a beautifull place Halbarad! Slemish looks about 100 m high and several km across? For myself I picture the Carrock smaller. Hearth of the Wild describes the Carrock as "a huge rock" sitting in the middle of the Anduin river (the river width at this point I guess would perhaps be around 200 m? I guess the White Anduin would be a braided river?), on top of which a "few dozen people" could assemble. Alan Lee drew a beautifull impression of the Carrock: a cliff or almost a pinacle in the middle of the river. MERP North measures the rocky Island approx. 100 m across with a height of 20 m. At 20 m one standing on top of the rock would only see approx. 16 km/1 hex far (so it would be unlikely one could see Mirkwood). Looking west tough the mighty Misty Mountain range would dominate the horizon.