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Re: The Princes of Rhovanion
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:42 pm
by Otaku-sempai
Glorelendil wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:25 pm
Otaku-sempai wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:55 pm
Éofolc = AY-oh-fohk
Éafolc = AY-ah-fohk
Pretty subtle difference, although probably not to them. I would go with that name, and then have both groups take major offense to mispronunciation by outsiders. Courtesy roll required to pronounce it correctly.
It might make a difference that éafolc is stated to be a name given to the River-people by the Woodmen and Beornings, not their own name for themselves (if they even have one). I do like your idea, but I'm okay with the Horse-folk calling themselves Éothéod from their occupation of Rhovanion.
Re: The Princes of Rhovanion
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:00 pm
by Tolwen
Otaku-sempai wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:41 pm
Does the name Éoringas ('horse-folk',
sing. Éoring) work for the princes of Rhovanion and their folk before they migrated to the Anduin Vales and called themselves the Leofrings?
Tolkien's terms for the Rohirrim and Éothéod are indeed build upon Old English models (and that's what has been in used in TOR as well), as many have already commented. However, he uses also other germanic tongues as models for his people. His most ancient "germanic" people (the Princes of Rhovanion) have their names built upon the most ancient known germanic language - Gothic.
This is also what Christopher Tolkien comments on in UT:
C.J.R. Tolkien wrote:
It is an interesting fact, not referred to I believe in any of my father's writings, that the names of the early kings and princes of the Northmen and the Éothéod are Gothic in form, not Old English (Anglo-Saxon) as in the case of Léod, Eorl, and the later Rohirrim. Vidugavia is Latinized in spelling, representing Gothic Widugauja ("wood-dweller"), a recorded Gothic name, and similarly Vidumavi Gothic Widumawi ("wood-maiden"). Marhwini and Marhari contain the Gothic word marh "horse," corresponding to Old English mearh, plural mearas, the word used in The Lord of the Rings for the horses of Rohan; wini "friend" corresponds to Old English winë, seen in the names of several of the Kings of the Mark. Since, as is explained in Appendix F (II), the language of Rohan was "made to resemble ancient English," the names of the ancestors of the Rohirrim are cast into the forms of the earliest recorded Germanic language.
Unfinished Tales, Note 6 to Cirion and Eorl and the friendship of Gondor and Rohan
Chris Seeman used this as the base to label these people "Ehwathrumi".
Thus, IMO, the most authentic source for spellings and linguistics for the Rhovanic Princes pre-TA1851 can only be Gothic.
Best
Tolwen
Re: The Princes of Rhovanion
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:29 am
by Halbarad
The Vidugavians are a favourite subject of mine and I enjoyed a lengthy period of correspondence with Tolwen over the Other Minds 14 Demographics of Rhovanion article.
I would agree that the language of these folk changed over time. At the time of Vidugavia, their name should be in the old Gothic language. Ehwathrumi and Marhathiuda are both suitable.
Languages don’t change overnight though and these people, closer to the Wainrider Wars, might be starting to have the more familiar Saxon influenced names of the Éothéod and the Eorlingas.
Re: The Princes of Rhovanion
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:42 am
by Earendil
Glorelendil wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:25 pm
Otaku-sempai wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:55 pm
Éofolc = AY-oh-fohk
Éafolc = AY-ah-fohk
Pretty subtle difference, although probably not to them. I would go with that name, and then have both groups take major offense to mispronunciation by outsiders. Courtesy roll required to pronounce it correctly.
It is a subtle difference, which is why I thought O-S might not want to go with it. Although I like your idea of them getting offended by outsiders not noticing the difference!
By the way, though, I believe the "l" in "folc" was not silent as it is in the modern form, "folk". It was pronounced like the German "Volk" (which of course is the same word).
Re: The Princes of Rhovanion
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:57 am
by Otaku-sempai
Earendil wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:42 am
By the way, though, I believe the "l" in "folc" was not silent as it is in the modern form, "folk". It was pronounced like the German "Volk" (which of course is the same word).
I stand corrected!
The Northmen of Rhovanion
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:20 pm
by Otaku-sempai
I've altered my approach to the Northmen of Rhovanion, taking a broader view that includes the Northmen that are more closely related to the Bardings, Woodmen and other folk of the Vales of Anduin, as opposed to the Leofrings and Rohirrim. The differences between the plainsmen and the other folk will be reflected more in Backgrounds than in other abilities, Virtues or Rewards, though they might warrant a separate, distinctive Culture Blessing (I'm undecided on this). I am going to introduce at least one new Speciality: Falconry.
New Trait: Falconry
You are an expert in the handling and training of hawks, falcons and other birds of prey. Your raptors can bring down game birds in mid-flight. You may have taught them to harass opponents many times their size and even to perform such tricks as snatching an object from a person’s hand.
Re: The Princes of Rhovanion
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:21 pm
by Agnot
That new Falconry Trait almost sounds like it would work better as a Virtue. Similar to a Hound of Mirkwood.
Which would be awesome, btw.
Re: The Princes of Rhovanion
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:19 pm
by Otaku-sempai
Agnot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:21 pm
That new Falconry Trait almost sounds like it would work better as a Virtue. Similar to a Hound of Mirkwood.
Which would be awesome, btw.
Add a training regimen and you might be right! Food for thought. That does make me wonder why there was no Warhorse Virtue (or something similar) for the Riders of Rohan; I was really expecting to see one.
Re: The Princes of Rhovanion
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:52 pm
by Agnot
Otaku-sempai wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:19 pm
Add a training regimen and you might be right! Food for thought. That does make me wonder why there was no Warhorse Virtue (or something similar) for the Riders of Rohan; I was really expecting to see one.
Your falling down on the job, I expected full rules for using falcons by now
Looking over the rules for adding Qualities to horses in
Horse-lords of Rohan, I still think keeping it to a simple virtue that allows three or so Qualities to be trained (like a Mirkwood Hound) would work and be super-cool (which is like rolling an Extraordinary Success on your Cool test).
As a side note, there is a part of me that wished they had opened up the training of horses to everyone.
Re: The Princes of Rhovanion
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:25 pm
by Otaku-sempai
Agnot wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:52 pm
As a side note, there is a part of me that wished they had opened up the training of horses to everyone.
You know, as a Loremaster you can just do that yourself! And make Horsemanship available to anyone, where appropriate.
I'm sure that you would make allowances for Leofrings or Northmen of Rhovanion who represent remnants of their original folk.