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Aiwendil wrote:We have a great fellowship right now and while I can't speak for others, I'm having a blast running this adventure for this fine group of Middle-Earth aficionados.

Definitely. It's a great group and huge amounts of fun.

Plus because we're all new to the rules there's some discussion about how various bits work as we come across them, which might be useful to other new players.

Yeah, I am learning stuff that I can use to make the face to face game I am running better. If only I had access at work, my 12 hour shifts make me reallymslow to respond sometimes.

Just wanted to let you all know I didn't give up. Thanks for all the help. I had a TOR game on Saturday with some friends, and they seemed to enjoy it, depsite the muddling that went on with the rules. I am really having a hard time with what the adventure seems to expect, they only give you a few ideas and really no other adventure hooks to get the players motivated. Luckily, we have one dwarf with the raven trait so it's helping move things along, but I'm going to have to think hard for next weeks game to get everyone involved equally.

Running Marsh Bell, btw.

Hi Vaeldroth,

glad you persevered. Two things: first, a plug, the LM screen is really useful during play Second, I think you'll find out soon that if the players are sufficiently proactive, the Fellowship phases will give you plenty of hints on how to proceed and keep their characters involved.

Francesco

Indeed. While in the first few adventures they had very artificial motives (in the Marsh Bell and Don't leave the path) it quickly became easier as they got involved in the word and actually had stuff to do during the Fellowship Phases that led them to the next adventures.

Vaeldroth wrote:Just wanted to let you all know I didn't give up. I had a TOR game on Saturday with some friends, and they seemed to enjoy it,.

I am happy to hear this! It gets easier the more you play - and the easier it gets the more fun it is, and the more fun it becomes, you more you want to play!

I am really having a hard time with what the adventure seems to expect, they only give you a few ideas and really no other adventure hooks to get the players motivated. .

What I have done is left the game almost completely in the hands of the players to determine the next adventure(s). That is not to say that I don't have certain ideas that I use - but I leave many of them open-ended so that I can drop them in, whenever I feel I want to and in a variety of different settings so that wherever the PCs go - I can still employ some of the encounter ideas I've come up with - and I use the published one to mine ideas from (if not using it wholly).

Also at the beginning of a character's existence, I ask the players to imagine their Traits/Distinctive Features, and calling and come up with a couple of important things to the characters life that they would like to achieve and I work with them to somehow tie in the lore of Middle-earth to their aspirations. A dwarf PC for instance wants to stare into the Dimril Dale. An elf PC wants to visit Rivendell, A hobbit PC wants to visit the Carrock from Bilbos' story where the eagles safely dropped him off. Etc.

Between the plentiful plot-hooks, and the PCs own dreams and aspirations allows for a "sandboxy" game where the players choose where they want to go next, and choose what undertaking to pursue. To do this successfully, though, you need to drop about 2-3 various plot hook teasers in every game you play that the players may want to follow up on. Rumors, maps found, discoveries, political events, seemingly random encounters etc. I make sure that when I run a session, that I drop a couple of important facts or discoveries or rumors, that the players learn just enough about to whet their appetite. Perhaps it's a song, or poem or story they remember, or a stranger on the road with dark tidings, or any number of things. I don't have each of them "mapped" out or planned - just ideas to build on. During the Fellowship Phase they discuss what they want to pursue and then I work on elaborating on the hook they want to go after. If they happen to be going in a direction that one of the many published adventures or shared ones on here take place in, then I'll run the events in that one that just "happen to unfold" while the PCs are pursuing their own interest.

For instance, the heroes recently wanted to cross the Elf-Path through Mirkwood to pursue their own goals in life (stated above) so I used the Don't Leave the Path adventure seamlessly placed. Now they're in the Anduin Vale and visiting the Easterly Inn (which they had heard about several games before by another hobbit in Lake-Town talking about it), so I'm introducing the Stewed Hobbits events now that they're there, and when they finally meet the Woodmen, I'll use Words to the Wise. Meanwhile they're also pursuing their own hooks and I'm dropping new hook ideas while they go. So I'm usually laying the groundwork for adventures that may never happen or might unfold sometime in the future. Meanwhile the heroes continue to make friends, and events in their own adventures that they want to follow up on - so there's never a shortage of something the players want to pursue.

(sadly I don't get to play often enough to use all of it - as I'm still heaving embroiled in two ongoing lengthy Pathfinder campaigns).

Francesco wrote:Hi Vaeldroth,
glad you persevered. Two things: first, a plug, the LM screen is really useful during play

I did get the LM screen at the FLGS nearby before we played the game, and we got an extra set of dice as well. I don't think it could have helped avoid the sense of being overwhelmed by a new game though. I'm sure it will come in handy later. The Lake-town book did help though, I was able to give the characters starting activities.

Francesco wrote: Second, I think you'll find out soon that if the players are sufficiently proactive, the Fellowship phases will give you plenty of hints on how to proceed and keep their characters involved.

I'll have to see, we haven't hit a fellowship phase yet.

SirKicley wrote:Also at the beginning of a character's existence, I ask the players to imagine their Traits/Distinctive Features, and calling and come up with a couple of important things to the characters life that they would like to achieve and I work with them to somehow tie in the lore of Middle-earth to their aspirations. A dwarf PC for instance wants to stare into the Dimril Dale. An elf PC wants to visit Rivendell, A hobbit PC wants to visit the Carrock from Bilbos' story where the eagles safely dropped him off. Etc.

I have an elf PC that I really need to do this with. It's been years since she roleplayed with us, and I think she's as overwhelmed by the setting as we all are. I'm trying to get the mood right, but the players aren't all that familiar with anything but the movie, so it's hard to ask them for goals. I'm the only one who's read the books.

Any suggestions for motivating PCs who haven't read the books, and maybe saw the movies awhile ago?

Vaeldroth wrote:
I have an elf PC that I really need to do this with. It's been years since she roleplayed with us, and I think she's as overwhelmed by the setting as we all are. I'm trying to get the mood right, but the players aren't all that familiar with anything but the movie, so it's hard to ask them for goals. I'm the only one who's read the books.

Any suggestions for motivating PCs who haven't read the books, and maybe saw the movies awhile ago?

Direct your players to a number of good LOTR wikis. That's what we do, and I've mined a plethora of stories and ideas for adventures, backstories, and motivations for NPCs.

It's as simple as going to the site, selecting Places or People or whatever - taking into consideration what would be of importance to that PC (such as a dwarf player looking at other famous dwarves or places they dwell), and then read the Cliff Notes version of something. If you spent an hour just clicking on things and reading, they'd be amazed at the depth of the story and can come up with some great fodder for embellishing their character's ideals and aspirations.

Here are a couple of my favorites:

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Main_Page

Just wanted to add my own PbP game into the mix. Check it out if you're interested (it's been ongoing for almost a year now, and despite some player turnover I'm really enjoying it!).

http://rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52255&date=1343510056

EDIT: I should probably mention that you'll have to request Lurker status in the game to view it.

I can sympathize with having players that have only seen the movies, as that was the case with 2 of my 3 players from my first game of TOR. Unfortunately the player who had read the books moved, so the campaign ended. I would advise gently "pushing" the themes common in Tolkien's work on the players, but don't get too stressed out if the players ignore it. My two players who hadn't read the books were selfish, greedy, and unheroic characters typical of "Neutral" alignment in D&D, and it was pretty hard to keep myself from trying to force them into a more heroic role. The Dwarf player in particular became extremely obsessed with treasure because of his Calling. Being used to crunchy d20 games and 9x9 alignment they basically took their traits and callings and played them extremely one-dimensionally. Saying "I'm bold" for pretty much every action became a bit of a running joke. Try to steer your players away from that, but keep in mind that there's only so much you can do.

Have fun with it, and keep in mind that TOR is a game that focuses very heavily on the narrative. Dont' sweat it if you can't remember the rules exactly; make something up that makes sense, letting your players know that you'll look up the real rule later when you have more time (OH and get the updated index from the Resources page so you can do this a lot more efficiently!). Between learning rules that way and having the LM screen for reference you'll pick it up pretty quickly. Just always remember not to let the mechanics get in the way of the story (for the most part they're designed to enhance the story, so keep that intent in mind).

Glad to hear you didn't give up, Vaeldroth! The rules-muddling will go away fast, I think. TOR's rules are very consistent.

Vaeldroth wrote: Any suggestions for motivating PCs who haven't read the books, and maybe saw the movies awhile ago?

I'd recommend two bits of the TOR Adventurer's Guide: the descriptions of the cultures on pages 12-14 and the descriptive text given for the Background each player chose.

The culture descriptions outline the themes and struggles of each group, and the backgrounds always have little nuggets of story written into them that a player can build on. Those two things are probably enough for people to come up with some basic ideas you can hone in play.

As an extra step, I asked each player three questions tailored to the culture, background and calling they chose. For most characters I pulled an NPC from Tales of Wilderland or the Marsh Bell and asked the player what their relationship with them was. Here are the questions I asked:

For the Barding Scholar:

• You lived in Lake-Town 5 years ago when Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities, descended the mountain and burned the town to ash. What did the Dragon take from you that night?
• You have the Birthright virtue. The Bardings have rebuilt the city of Dale, but barely begun reclaiming the lands around that made up their lost kingdom. Tell us something about the lands that are rightfully yours.
• Your calling is Scholar. What's a secret or mystery you're desperate to uncover?

For the Beorning Warden:

• Oderic is a young (19 years old) beorning warrior fostered to Helmgut in the village of Stoneyford. He's capable, prone to moods, and determined to make a name for himself. What's your relationship with him?
• Tell us about your parentage. In which I believe Beorn features prominently.
• Your calling is Warden. Recently, you encountered an orc-chief called Ghor. Ghor was no ordinary orc. Tall, strong, cunning, his helm bore a mark: a red eye. Ghor still lives. What did he leave you to remind you of him? And one gift deserves another: what did give him in return?

For the Dwarven Wanderer:

• Oin and his brother Gloin were companions of Thorin Oakenshield on his quest to reclaim Erebor. How do you know them, and why do you consider yourself in their debt?
• What shameful, secret, or desperate deed have you used your Broken Spells for?
• Your calling is Wanderer. Which part of Wilderland have you been to that you hope never to go to again (pick somewhere from the map).

For the Woodman Treasure-Seeker:

• Magric the Trapper is tall, handsome, and well-spoken for one of the woodmen. It's said there's Elvish blood in his family. He lives alone, hunting and trapping in the vales of the Gladden River, coming to Mountain Hall once each month to trade. What's your relationship with him?
• The wizard Radagast taught you old forest-songs and the healing arts. What apparently innocent item did he entrust to your safekeeping before you left?
• Your calling is Treasure-Seeker. What was it that kindled the gold-hunger in you?

It's often easier for players to come up with answers to specific questions than to invent stuff from thin air, I think. And the answers they give will always surprise you!