True Dragons

[Stormcrow]

Hate isn't a good measure of an adversary's power, as it only fuels their special abilities. A creature with lots of Hate isn't any more powerful than a creature with lots and lots of Hate. They're just powerful for longer.

As for dragons versus balrogs, remember that wizards are incarnated, while balrogs simply wear forms like clothing, like other Ainur. Incarnated beings have a whole host of weaknesses that body-wearing Ainur don't. If dragons are Maiar forced into dragon-bodies, they probably count as incarnated.

Otherwise, yes, dragons and balrogs are similar in power. Balrogs were Morgoth's elite heavy infantry; dragons were his tanks, and later his air force. Orcs were, of course, the disposable grunts.

[Glorelendil]

Otherwise, yes, dragons and balrogs are similar in power. Balrogs were Morgoth's elite heavy infantry; dragons were his tanks, and later his air force. Orcs were, of course, the disposable grunts.

It's possible that analogies can be stretched to the breaking point.

[Angelalex242]

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthre ... r-a-Balrog

On dragons vs. balrogs, it's discussed to death on this forum.

[Mim]

I like what they've done so far with dragons. Their write-ups (no spoiler alert) seem challenging & balanced - a combination that's difficult to attain, especially in Middle-earth.

Some of you mention that you're considering alternatives up to & including the Urulóki. If you decide to include one, you may wish to consider Tolkien's original plot about Scatha & Fram (though he may not have been winged). The joint themes of a weregild, vengeance, & so forth, permeate a number of Norse sagas, & they fit nicely in Middle-earth.

BTW, the HotW contains a brief adventure hook involving the City of the Éothéod (you'll see if you have't already purchased a copy - which I highly recommend ).

At any rate (& without getting into a time-consuming dialogue), there's also the whole dragon spawning thing. Tolkien changed his view on the subject, so it's largely a matter of interpretation as to whether they spawned others of their kind & more particularly, how. Rich's quote (thanks!) from the professor's letter indicates that others existed into the latter Third Age, so we can potentially add a brother or sister, son or daughter (if you follow) of Smaug, Scatha, the Forrest Dragon, or Raenar the Cold-drake. Just imagine the terrifying fun when your heroes realize they're in over their heads...

[Angelalex242]

Depends on how experienced the characters are. Don't put beginners up against a Dragon. On the other hand, if you've got a party of 6 Valor, 6 Wisdom, 6 Weapon Skill guys, just tell 'em where the Dragon is, and they'll go hunt the durned thing down themselves.

[Glorelendil]

Cause that's how I roll.

I want numbers for everything a fellowship goes up against.

For if you stat something, no matter how powerfully, the fact remains your PCs can probably devise a way to kill it. Watching them do so is much of the fun.

"Yeah, it was the 6 of us against a dragon that had roasted hundreds of dwarves and eaten hundreds more. Let me tell you how we killed him..."

Here is an oft-quoted post from the Dungeon World community, which I think has relevance here:
http://www.latorra.org/2012/05/15/a-16-hp-dragon/

In other words, stats aren't everything.

[Mim]

Thank you for sharing this post Elfcrusher.

This is one of the best examples I've ever read of how to do it. As LMs, imbuing our monsters & villains with life is the key to raising our games from meh to whoa

BTW, I once sent a 45 HP dragon against a company in 1st Ed up in the Ettenmoors. Yes, I use to run D&D in Middle-earth, but sans most of the magic. Let's not get into it - it worked at the time LOL

At any rate, I'll never forget their faces, & the palpable feel of fear that rippled around the table, when they realized that he was not waiting impotently atop his hoard for them to kill him & loot the place six ways from Sunday, but instead stalked them as they approached his lair.

One of the heroes, a Dúnadan Seer, said:

"We came here to hunt him."

They all turned & looked at the Seer.

"Now he's hunting us."

Their faces dropped when the light went on, & then they ran for their lives. Ah, good memories...

[Angelalex242]

Well, that post is for a very different style of game.

You don't put 'dragon that rips your arm off' up against Final Fantasy players who expect 'dragon does 24 points of damage.' Likewise, you don't put a Final Fantasy dragon up against '5 points of damage can rip my arm off' players.

The mystic 'hit point shield' I'll call it allows players to be superheroes. Batman and Superman don't get their arms ripped off. Batman got his back broken once...but only once, and he's only human!

On the other hand, 'rips your arm off' leads to disposable characters. "He lost his arm? Well, he's useless now, time to roll up a new one..." For such a game, I'd carry 6 character sheets and have them ready to sub in at a moment's notice so I can continue showing magnificent valor and all. A character rendered helpless isn't any fun to play anymore...at least, not for me. (And if the GM complains about me not playing the disabled character, I can simply point out that he either lets me play what I want to play or I leave his gaming table and go home. Nobody can force me to play after all, and the bottom line is this:If the GM fails to make things fun for me, I'm always free to get up and leave.)

Since I tend to dislike disposable characters as well, I prefer Final Fantasy style gaming. Indeed, I'm playing Final Fantasy 13 on my XBOX 360 as I write this.