How does fatigue work?

[Woodclaw]

I for one think that Fatigue scores need to be re-calibrated somewhat if they are going to let players fight in large scale battles like Helm's Deep or the defense of Osgiliath. Men of Gondor wear coats of mail and helms, the men of Rohan wear scale Hauberks and helms, and other more war like cultures stay armed for war. Base a coat of mail and helm is 20 fatigue and then you add weapons or a shield and you are looking at 25-27 fatigue and you are weary after the first hit in combat. I hope that if the game stretches to the War of the Ring that there is some way to lower fatigue or simply that it is adjusted. I know you can lower the fatigue with Valor but it seems too little too late. Anyone else care to chime in on this topic?

I definitely get where you are coming from Valdur--it seems really hard to fight wearing all that armor and carrying multiple weapons. I always thought it was kind of a feature of the game instead of a flaw though. I think it's really flavorful that you can pile on weapons and armor like crazy if you want, but guess what as soon as you get into a serious fight you are going to be TIRED. You can continue to fight when you're weary, but is it worth the cost?

I think that's really the best part of how the fatigue/endurance system works--choosing weapons and armor becomes just that--a choice. In many other systems you ALWAYS take the heaviest possible weapons and armor--the benefit is huge, the drawback isn't too big a deal. Making the drawback larger brings more choice back into selecting armor and weapons for your hero.

I think that both of you made valid points. Currently the system is meant to represent character who are primarily travellers hence it makes sense for them to use light armors and vert few weapons. On the other hand I expect to see some different rules when the story will reach the War of the Ring.

[Stormcrow]

Injuring and demoralizing are easier and more common ways of doing this, and for the most part armies will take prisoners rather than slaughtering the wounded.

Depends on the army....

"For the most part." I've learned to liberally sprinkle qualifiers in all Internet communication. In the real world, which is the source of the types of armor available, and which is the point of my "historically" qualifier, soldiering isn't usually butchering. There have been exceptions, hence "for the most part." In the game world, goblin armies would be one of those exceptions.

[Angelalex242]

Then again, in most Renn Faires and SCEA type stuff, the guys wearing heavy armor seem to get tired less quickly then your average TOR character. Maybe they've all got cunning make on their armor.

Your average Arthurian Knight never seems to get tired either.

[Hermes Serpent]

There was a program some months back in the UK about the World Championships for hitting people with medieval weapons while wearing reproduction armour and it showed some Brits getting geared up and taking part. There were sort of group scrums with a last man standing winner and one on one combats. One thing I did take away was that the level of fitness required was very high as the group combats which lasted about 2 or 3 minutes had many participants injured and out of breath. The eastern Europeans seem to have a major advantage with a huge depth of fighters to choose from as It;s very popular in Ukraine and many other locales there.

The armour was mostly leather and maille with some metal reinforcing plates, shinguards, vambraces etc. and the weapons were blunted but of realistic weight so hurt when you got hit (broken arms and very nasty bruises even through the armour).

The level of exertion involved showed me that the exhaustion noted in contemporary medieval writing was very real when fighting under a hot sun (the combat was in southern France in temperatures up to the high 20's Celsius). So the prospect of combat against a horde of orcs trying to kill you certainly seemed to be well represented by the rules in TOR.

[Stormcrow]

Then again, in most Renn Faires and SCEA type stuff, the guys wearing heavy armor seem to get tired less quickly then your average TOR character.

It's not the armor, it's the shield. You wouldn't believe how quickly your muscles lose the ability to hold up even a light shield in an actual battle. I couldn't do it for more than a few minutes.

[Glorelendil]

Then again, in most Renn Faires and SCEA type stuff, the guys wearing heavy armor seem to get tired less quickly then your average TOR character. Maybe they've all got cunning make on their armor.

They're not afraid of actually dying. Makes a big difference.

[Glorelendil]

One thing I did take away was that the level of fitness required was very high as the group combats which lasted about 2 or 3 minutes had many participants injured and out of breath.

Back in the day when I was stupidly fit (climbing mountains, 100-mile mtn bike rides, running peaks) my adventure buddy and I tried boxing. We took a lesson or two, then started sparring. I thought I was fit. Ha! We fought one minute rounds and at the end of each round I would fall on the matt, tear the headgear off, and just gasp for oxygen for the entire one-minute rests.

Fighting is hard.

(Curious side note: the first time we did this, the next morning my back/lats were really sore. I finally figured out it was from my missed punches.)

[Woodclaw]

Then again, in most Renn Faires and SCEA type stuff, the guys wearing heavy armor seem to get tired less quickly then your average TOR character.

It's not the armor, it's the shield. You wouldn't believe how quickly your muscles lose the ability to hold up even a light shield in an actual battle. I couldn't do it for more than a few minutes.

Having 20 Kg of iron on your shoulders (that's how much a mail haukber weight if I remember correctly) surely doesn't help. While armor is generally less bulky than people thinks, due to the fact that most armor was designed to put the weight on the warrior shoulders (like a backpack) it was still horribly heavy. Just for the sake of experiment try to fight with a 20 Kg backpack.
On the shield subject I guess that, aside from the weight, there's also the issue of the muscles going numb from repated impacts (my experience with shields is limited to bucklers which are used in a slightly different way).

[Angelalex242]

Ah, yes. That's the advantage of plate...it distributes the weight a HECK of a lot more evenly, and the SCEA guys are usually using Plate.

It may be the fatigue rating of Plate (6d armor) would actually be less then a mail hauberk, or even a coat of mail, just by weight distribution.

[Valdur]

I know the numbers work about the same from my current game. I am a Barding kings man with 30 endurance and I carry a shield and wear a chain shirt with a longsword total 18 fatigue in war gear. My comparison is a woodmen who uses leather corslet and helm we weilding a bow and axe two handed. I try to tank things and he flies into melee after opening volley and more often than not I'm the one that gets taken out. Thematically it makes no sense that the soldier wearing armor and carrying a shield goes down before the lightly armed woodman. I think it will be worse once regions like Gondor and Rohan that are active war zones open up. You can't be citidel guards and wear leather shirts to defend the walls of the white tower