forums.cubicle7.co.uk
archive

DavetheLost wrote:It is not that I want to screw the players over more, or at all, but I would like being Wounded to hurt. I also would like wearing armour to be meaningful. Experienced heroes being able to mow down orcs by the score fits the fiction, but Trolls should be tough and fearsome opponents.

At present heavy armour is really only a viable option for Dwarves. It makes some sense that Elves would shun heavy armour, and that Hobbits would have difficulty with the bulk and weight, but Men should be able to gain advantage from donning armour.

I think that to many of us armour in TOR just isn't giving the "feel" we want.

I thought TOR was too easy, too, until I realized that bad guys add their attribute level as a bonus on all favored skills, all the time. Then things got much harder

Rocmistro wrote: I thought TOR was too easy, too, until I realized that bad guys add their attribute level as a bonus on all favored skills, all the time. Then things got much harder

Oh my god my sim is broken...

Well, it depends. In Peter Jackson verse, PCs are more superheroic, able to stand on the heads of their companions and mow down enemies by the bucketload, or roll over them in a barrel, or whatever. This is also more of a D&Dish style, where PCs are only rarely in real danger unless they do something stupid.

In real Tolkien, however, the PCs are essentially playing 'random mook A.' We're not Aragorn, we're random NPC #243 standing in Aragorn's army.

You gotta decide whether you want your PCs to be Aragorns of the world, or Random dude #243 In Aragorn's Army.

Angelalex242 wrote:Well, it depends. In Peter Jackson verse, PCs are more superheroic, able to stand on the heads of their companions and mow down enemies by the bucketload, or roll over them in a barrel, or whatever. This is also more of a D&Dish style, where PCs are only rarely in real danger unless they do something stupid.

In real Tolkien, however, the PCs are essentially playing 'random mook A.' We're not Aragorn, we're random NPC #243 standing in Aragorn's army.

You gotta decide whether you want your PCs to be Aragorns of the world, or Random dude #243 In Aragorn's Army.

There is a wide spectrum of heroism between the extremes of "Aragorn" and "Random Dude". Suggesting that it's a binary choice is arguing a straw man. The design of this game targets something in the middle (which I for one greatly enjoy) and I think those who want to play Peter Jackson's Legolas are going to either be disappointed, or have to house-rule the game into something unrecognizable.

Then again, I'm a superhero in real life and it gets old having to save the world from mad scientists, undead Nazis, and alien slavers. Role-playing a slightly-above-average hobbit is a nice break.

Angelalex242 wrote:Well, it depends. In Peter Jackson verse, PCs are more superheroic, able to stand on the heads of their companions and mow down enemies by the bucketload, or roll over them in a barrel, or whatever. This is also more of a D&Dish style, where PCs are only rarely in real danger unless they do something stupid.

In real Tolkien, however, the PCs are essentially playing 'random mook A.' We're not Aragorn, we're random NPC #243 standing in Aragorn's army.

You gotta decide whether you want your PCs to be Aragorns of the world, or Random dude #243 In Aragorn's Army.

I think the game can and should strive for a middle ground between the two. Something like Ragnar lothbrok on The Vikings history channel or William Wallace. Badass? Yes...in spades....but not over the top badassery.

On a side not...having worn a lot of armor I can tell you this....it's not the weight nor the material of the armor but how we'll it fits that leads to encumbrance. And the stuff you carry in hand is far more encumbering than what you wear. My 3' full bronze hoplon shield and 8' dory spear are far worse each than my bell cuirass, helmet, greaves and war belt all put together.

I don't need to be Aragorn, being Eomer would suit just fine.

As far as PJ the one house rule I have made at the request of my players is to allow the Elves to use their bows in close combat. So far it doesn't seem too unbalancing, although the image of an Elf busily shooting a bow while Orcs swing swords at his head does make me cringe a bit.

Well, a starting level hero with 0 XP is essentially random dude #243, in my opinion. XP makes you great, you don't start that way.

On the other end, Maybe Aragorn's got 251 XP. (ya know, so Eldarion can start with the maximum 14 bonus XP for heroic heritage)

The middle of the road characters, then...Eomer, and such...come into existence at around 100 XP or so. But you don't start there. You've gotta EARN your way there.

However, this is thread derailment, so back on topic, which is armor and fatigue.

Angelalex242 wrote:A fully armored character...

might have a great shield, a helm, and a mail hauberk.

Add to that, say, a Longsword...

And the fatigue is OVER the max endurance of the character in almost all circumstances. Sometimes including dwarves.

That is, a human being wearing such armor would START the battle weary. That's kinda not cool, because real Knights wore armor heavier then that and somehow managed to do fine.

Another idea, again my apologies if someone has already suggested this. This is based on adrenaline and should allow a character to begin combat in heavy armour without being Weary. Adversaries don't have to worry about encumbrance mechanics, so this will apply to character's only.

At the beginning of combat — not the facing off nor when drawing up ranks or when waiting for the other side to advance, but when actual round the axes begin to sing, the arrows rain,etc. — a character's current Endurance is temporarily increased by the total of their favoured Body and favoured Heart scores. (If the character is wounded, they temporarily increase their current Endurance by Body +Heart.)

The duration of this increase is 10 rounds (5 minutes).

At the end of the 10th round, this same amount is subtracted from the character's current Endurance. Of course, all RAW applies throughout the combat. For example, when the temporary increase is subtracted if this reduces the character to 0, the character passes out from exhaustion (which they would have done earlier anyway if there hadn't been an increase).

Obviously this will also increase the survivability of the character.

You could counter this with an Eye trigger. Whenever an adversary successfully attacks (endurance lost) with an Eye, this 'telling blow' also causes the temporary bonus to be subtracted immediately, instead of at the end of the 10th round.

If you feel Favoured Body + Favoured Heart provides too much of a temporary increase, use another combination. Here are the averages of the pregen characters in the AB:

Favoured Body + Favoured Heart 13.5
Favoured Body + Heart.......11.7
Body + Heart.........................9.2
Body + Favoured Heart.......11


Alternately you could just go with Plan B, and reduce the encumbrance all armour, including cap and helm by a third (minimum of 1), which will allow heavier armour to be worn without the immediate weary penalty. To balance it out, associate the heavier armours with expense and/or status.

Hey, folks.
I have a question. Does the Weary condition affect protection tests?
I mean, if that is the case, heavier armors would drastically decrease their protection after the first one or two hits.

Aashdallar wrote:Hey, folks.
I have a question. Does the Weary condition affect protection tests?
I mean, if that is the case, heavier armors would drastically decrease their protection after the first one or two hits.

I believe Weary is applied here too.