How does fatigue work?

[DavetheLost]

Thank you Yusei for running the numbers on this. It is nice to know that heavier armour does provide an advantage over light even when Weary.

Parts of the system may still "feel" wrong, but these numbers demonstrate that at least part of our feeling may be in error.

[SirKicley]

I still strongly believe that the issues mentioned in the above posts can be solved through the introduction of a new Mastery, thereby ensuring, that no further adaptations to the RAW regarding Armour/Encumbrance/Fatigue are necessary.
.

I agree that the mastery would be a good addition.

I do not believe it corrects the "perceived" issues as they are stated in this thread. What it does do is it 'fixes' an issue only if players want to spent their XP on a Mastery Tax.

The same issue is prevalent with the Bard Class for D&D 3rd edition and Pathfinder that many espouse. In order to be an effective Bard, one must choose the character feat that allows the effects of their songs to linger after they're finished singing. Without the feat, all you can do is sing and nothing more. The feat allows you to do something else (cast a spell, drink a potion, or whatever) and still be affecting your fellowship. In essence, that feat is almost a requirement in order to be effective, and many consider it a "feat tax". It's a must-have.

I think this mastery would do the same - IF it's being added for the purpose of correct these "perceived" flaws with TOR armor.

If you fix the armor instead, you're not forcing a XP Tax on players. Effective means that I have seen suggested so far include:

Reducing Encumbrance from Armor
Damage Reduction from Armor
Faster Healing post-combat of Endurance

Making the WOUNDED condition have greater impact would make armor more valuable I agree, but doing that IMO would only hurt players more than help, and it affects others who have their character designed more about light armored and low endurance.

Robert

[Michebugio]

Just to finish-off the earlier discussion about why IMHO Protection shouldn't be affected by the WEARY condition, I would like to mention also the simple fact that helms (helm and helmet) give to Protection rolls a bonus unaffected by weariness, since it's a fixed number.

So why a leather shirt (Enc 4, +1d6) should become less effective when the character wearing it is WEARY, and a more encumbring Helm (Enc 6, +4) not? Again, common sense should come in play here.

[Corvo]

Just to finish-off the earlier discussion about why IMHO Protection shouldn't be affected by the WEARY condition, I would like to mention also the simple fact that helms (helm and helmet) give to Protection rolls a bonus unaffected by weariness, since it's a fixed number.

So why a leather shirt (Enc 4, +1d6) should become less effective when the character wearing it is WEARY, and a more encumbring Helm (Enc 6, +4) not? Again, common sense should come in play here.

Just an idea, but maybe it's to encourage the use of helm.
Historically, head protection is the most important piece of armour -many times the only one-, but in games usually it's not so important.

[Evening]

Just an idea, but maybe it's to encourage the use of helm.
Historically, head protection is the most important piece of armour -many times the only one-, but in games usually it's not so important.

I agree. The hand/weapon arm and head/neck is more likely to be struck than the torso.

[Micco]

I still strongly believe that the issues mentioned in the above posts can be solved through the introduction of a new Mastery, thereby ensuring, that no further adaptations to the RAW regarding Armour/Encumbrance/Fatigue are necessary.

I'm very new to TOR, but I like this approach as a first step. It is simple, it has a defensible reasoning behind it (experience at wearing armor reduces the fatigue it creates) and it scales. So I'm using it to see what affect it has before going to more drastic measures. I don't want my players to think that 'heavier equals better', any more than I want lighter to actually equal better.

I agree that it feels a little bit like a 'feat tax', but I think in this case it is actually a good upgrade. Currently heavier armor has a benefit even when wearied (as proven above...thank you for that), and with this rule adjustment it can be made even more beneficial if you are trained/experienced in how to get the most out of it. I think that works for me and for my game.

Thanks all for the great thoughts and insights on this! I love reading all of them to get a little wiser.

“Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

[Glorelendil]

Just an idea, but maybe it's to encourage the use of helm.
Historically, head protection is the most important piece of armour -many times the only one-, but in games usually it's not so important.

I agree. The hand/weapon arm and head/neck is more likely to be struck than the torso.

Yeah but I put a lot of time & effort into describing my character's piercing eye color, manly facial hair, and ruggedly handsome scars. Now you want me to put on a HELMET? I'd rather be Wounded.

I'm too sexy for this game.

[Michebugio]

Yeah but I put a lot of time & effort into describing my character's piercing eye color, manly facial hair, and ruggedly handsome scars. Now you want me to put on a HELMET? I'd rather be Wounded.

I'm too sexy for this game.

Try a HELM and remove it during combat to lower your Fatigue by 3...


... and saying "I am no man!" while doing that!


I would allow a free Intimidation check for that

[Fatpob]

My thoughts on armour is that you should take fatigue when you are involved in movement and or combat.

Armour ENC is only utilised in reference to the maximum a character can carry. The armour ENC is not used in the calculation (unless it is actually carried rather than worn) for Fatigue.

Instead of the ENC fatigue, Armour fatigues you based on the feat dice you roll in Combat/Travel as follows:

Leather shirt: Feat die 3 or less gain 1 fatigue
Leather corselet: Feat die 5 or less gain 1 fatigue
Chain shirt: Feat die 4 or less gain 2 fatigue
Coat of mail: Feat die 5 or less gain 2 fatigue
Chain hauberk: Feat die 6 or less gain 2 fatigue

Normal travel losses are also incurred - so if you should gain 1 fatigue from a failed Travel and are wearing a Coat of Mail you lose 1 plus another 2 if your feat die rolls 5 or less.

If wearing Armour, Sauron on the feat die automatically generates 1 fatigue plus any other effects required by the Sauron.