What attribute level would a Balrog be?

[Angelalex242]

Gandalf posts back, "Cry more n00b. I get to come back to life and you don't."

Even funnier, of course, is when March 25th, 3020 comes around and Sauron starts qqing about OP hobbits.

While all this is happening, of course, Tolkien rolls over in his grave like an axle wheel over his characters acting like they had forum accounts.

[Dunheved]

Looking at Balrogs in the detailed version of the Fall of Gondolin (Book of Lost Tales 2), Tolkien was offering the deaths/destruction of multiple Balrogs at that event. Even accepting that these spirits were destroyed by exceptional (High) Elven characters wielding powerful weapons, Balrogs need to be able to be taken down.

So far I've found that if a character is three or more attribute levels above their opponents and that powerful character is developed in a reasonably balanced way then the opponent numbers are almost irrelevant (within reason). The powerful fighter gets the initiative and slays the opposition with one blow (Shades of Hurin in the battle of Unnumbered Tears). So a serious figure (Beorn) taking on mobs of goblins carries on until everywhere is washed black with their blood. Would anybody (in Tolkien-style) live with the death of Beorn by an attack by a large gang of goblins?(Just as Samwise was sure that a wolf's belly would not be the end of Mr Gandalf).

I'm guessing that a team of four or five is the standard size for our bands of adventurers. That's just far too few to take on a powerful figure like a Balrog by force. We don't have the bodies to wear it down, (you'd be employing serial Birthright Cultural Blessings to get through that gaming session!)

However, surviving an encounter with these giant figures of the Shadow is a different matter. I think that Story-telling RPG is about finding the mechanisms to incorporate Balrogs & Nazgul & dragons without having to kill it to end the story. And if you think like that you don't need huge attribute levels.

Thanks for viewing my first post! TOR is a magnificent work well tuned to the feel of Tolkien.

[Stormcrow]

I think that Story-telling RPG is about finding the mechanisms to incorporate Balrogs & Nazgul & dragons without having to kill it to end the story.

I quite agree. In that case you needn't write up the balrog as an adversary; a named loremaster character write-up will do. Unless you know your players are nuts enough to try to fight it...

[Tolwen]

Looking at Balrogs in the detailed version of the Fall of Gondolin (Book of Lost Tales 2), Tolkien was offering the deaths/destruction of multiple Balrogs at that event. Even accepting that these spirits were destroyed by exceptional (High) Elven characters wielding powerful weapons, Balrogs need to be able to be taken down.

You have to be careful with using this stuff (and not for licensing reasons). The LT represent to oldest and most raw ideas of Tolkien as far as Middle-earth is concerned. If you look at the developmental process, you can see how Balrogs developed from frightening, but manageable (for great heroes) creatures to monsters that were almost unbeatable. In the same instant, their numbers decreased: In the LT, there are hordes of them and they are slain by the Elves (and Tuor - a man!) in the dozen. Later on, Tolkien reduced their numbers ever more, until he came up with the idea that probably no more than seven ever existed. In the same instant, their individual power was greatly increased.

Thus, it is difficult and gives a skewed image to directly compare the LT Balrogs with the LotR Balrog, even if they bear the same name.

Cheers
Tolwen

[Glorelendil]

When I was a lad we slew balrogs by the dozens, and we didn't need no stinkin' magic swords to do it.

But you tell that to kids nowadays and they don't believe you.