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Well, my group is closing their first Fellowship Phase, where I hope some of the problems I had running the game so far will be smoothed out.
Now one of the things that bugged me a bit so far is the ceoncept of Sanctuary, opposed to a simple abode to rest. Initially I thought that every place where the group is welcomed as a whole might constitute a sanctuary, but after re-reading the rules (and a few topics here and there) I've come to question my initial definition.

So, I'm asking what element are key to a place to be a viable Sanctuary?
Also, is it legit for the group to start having a Sanctuary other than Esgaroth (one of my players insisted on having Dale as sanctuary on the group that his "King's Men" virtue should provide him with a measure of respect in Dale)?

As I see it, a sanctuary is a place where you don't have to have an encounter to win the right to stay there. Perhaps the woodmen have agreed to let you rest a while at Woodland Hall, but the next time you visit you're going to have to obtain their agreement again if you haven't made Woodland Hall a sanctuary. But if you've made a place a sanctuary, you've earned their permanent trust and generosity.

Lake Town is a sanctuary because it is a crossroads: all from the Free Peoples are welcomed there. Dale, on the other hand, is a town of men, and is not cosmopolitan like its neighbor. The lore-master is free to award sanctuaries for any reasons he likes, but I'm not sure the king would like one of his men passing around the royal vittles to his errant friends.

Gar defines what a sanctuary is in the thread on holdings, specifically:

Mytholder wrote:A Holding could be a Sanctuary, but certainly isn't by default. For a place to count as a Sanctuary, I'd say it needs most of the following criteria to be true:

* Free of the Shadow
* Safe - either hidden or fortified
* Protected or blessed by someone of considerable power
* Inhabited year-round by people other than the player characters
* Preserving or reminding visitors of better days

A Sanctuary is more than a place to take shelter; it's a place of healing and succour.

Andrew wrote:Gar defines what a sanctuary is in the thread on holdings, specifically:

Mytholder wrote:A Holding could be a Sanctuary, but certainly isn't by default. For a place to count as a Sanctuary, I'd say it needs most of the following criteria to be true:

* Free of the Shadow
* Safe - either hidden or fortified
* Protected or blessed by someone of considerable power
* Inhabited year-round by people other than the player characters
* Preserving or reminding visitors of better days

A Sanctuary is more than a place to take shelter; it's a place of healing and succour.

Thanks I remembered that post, but I forgot to search for it.

Stormcrow wrote:As I see it, a sanctuary is a place where you don't have to have an encounter to win the right to stay there. Perhaps the woodmen have agreed to let you rest a while at Woodland Hall, but the next time you visit you're going to have to obtain their agreement again if you haven't made Woodland Hall a sanctuary. But if you've made a place a sanctuary, you've earned their permanent trust and generosity.

Lake Town is a sanctuary because it is a crossroads: all from the Free Peoples are welcomed there. Dale, on the other hand, is a town of men, and is not cosmopolitan like its neighbor. The lore-master is free to award sanctuaries for any reasons he likes, but I'm not sure the king would like one of his men passing around the royal vittles to his errant friends.

Your definition echoes mine, unfortunatly the player involved thinks that Dale should be a cosmopolite place because Bard is in good relationships with both the Dwarves and the Elves, hence it should be a politically neutral ground etc. The rest of group follows his lead (yes, he's quite charismatic).
Personally I think that Esgaroth should be a more politcally neutral area, but I can't force my vision on them. Currently they're answering a call for help from a clan of Mirkwood elves, we'll see how this turns out.

Ok, what about the new backgrounds Thegn of Dale and Hero of the Woodmen? Wouldn't these also convey the option of using Dale or the Woodmen Halls as a Sanctuary? I don't really see the Woodman making you one of their heros and then turning you away the next time you show up.

Beran, it may be a case of putting the cart before the horse. Are the people more likely to elevate you to status of hero if you are a regular feature of life in their community? Yes. Consider the way perhaps things should happen, a company bases itself in a location (a starting Sanctuary) at the outset of the game and uses that as a base to range around the area. If they frequently return to their 'home' location and often seek out trouble besetting that location and support the chief or leader of that stead or village then they should reap the benefits.

Should they be a wandering company that stays in no place for longer than a month or two and is continually patrolling and travelling the whole of Rhovanion then perhaps they form no clear allegiance to one place and may have many Sanctuaries where the rest and recover for a month or two and seek new tasks and rewards. The various people they encounter may not know of their deeds and pass them by as wandering vagabonds or sellswords despite their claims of dangerous deeds and heroic tales. Are they then seen as Heroes of the community? No, merely wandering thugs or murder hobos that take pay just like the ratcatcher.

A sanctuary is also prepared for your visit. A noted hero without a sanctuary might be loved and respected, but "I'm sorry, sir, but I've no room to house you and your friends except in the barn." A less noted band of adventurers may have made friends who "will always keep a house ready for your service."

This is just one possible justification for the rules; the exact details will depend on the location and how you explain your Open Sanctuary undertaking during the fellowship phase. Remember that Open Sanctuary is performed by the party as a whole, not by an individual.

Hermes Serpent wrote:Beran, it may be a case of putting the cart before the horse. Are the people more likely to elevate you to status of hero if you are a regular feature of life in their community? Yes. Consider the way perhaps things should happen, a company bases itself in a location (a starting Sanctuary) at the outset of the game and uses that as a base to range around the area. If they frequently return to their 'home' location and often seek out trouble besetting that location and support the chief or leader of that stead or village then they should reap the benefits.

Should they be a wandering company that stays in no place for longer than a month or two and is continually patrolling and travelling the whole of Rhovanion then perhaps they form no clear allegiance to one place and may have many Sanctuaries where the rest and recover for a month or two and seek new tasks and rewards. The various people they encounter may not know of their deeds and pass them by as wandering vagabonds or sellswords despite their claims of dangerous deeds and heroic tales. Are they then seen as Heroes of the community? No, merely wandering thugs or murder hobos that take pay just like the ratcatcher.

Yes, but that is not how the Thegn of Dale and/or Hero of the Woodman work. You can say that your character is spending a Fellowship phase to become a Thegn of Dale (or a Hero of the Woodmen), and after the phase you are that. It doesn't state that you have to open Dale/or Hall up as a Sanctuary first. And once you became a Thegn of Dale would they turn you away if you tried to use the city as a sanctuary? I think this is one more rule that needs to be added to the list of things that need to be cleared up.

Stormcrow wrote:A sanctuary is also prepared for your visit. A noted hero without a sanctuary might be loved and respected, but "I'm sorry, sir, but I've no room to house you and your friends except in the barn." A less noted band of adventurers may have made friends who "will always keep a house ready for your service."

This is just one possible justification for the rules; the exact details will depend on the location and how you explain your Open Sanctuary undertaking during the fellowship phase. Remember that Open Sanctuary is performed by the party as a whole, not by an individual.

So, your saying it is a case of "thanks for saving our village great hero, but make sure you have a reservation next time you stop by"? Not really the way to treat a Hero of your people or a close advisor to King Bard.

I'd say a more logical way to handle it...

I've played elves, mostly, so let's look at King Thranduil.

If the elven character comes home to his own halls, he HAS a place there for himself, he has friends, he has family, he has a place in his community. So it counts as a sanctuary, but only for the elf. His friends, human, dwarves, hobbits, whatever aren't given very good accomodations by the isolationist king, so they don't get the benefits of sanctuary. Only the character that lives there does.