forums.cubicle7.co.uk
archive

I see some desire in the forums for Heroes from the Corsairs of Umbar. While cultures that are hostile to the Peoples of tne North could certainly produce Player Heroes who do not share the prejudices of their fellows, is it actually a good idea to open such cultures to players? And, what other cultures should be made available for this sort of character?
- Dunlendings?
- Haradrim/Haradwaich/Southrons?*
- Easterlings?
- Variags of Khand?
- Black Folk of Far Harad?
- Axe-men of Rhun (Tolkien doesn't name this Easterling tribe of bearded Men wielding great axes)?

* All three terms describe the same group of peoples.

On a related note, I'm not sure that the Corsairs should be a distinct culture so much as a subset of the culture of Men of Umbar. For example:

Culture: Men of Umbar
Backgrounds:
1 - Corsair
2 - Black Numenorean
3 - Escaped Slave
4 - Tradesman's Son
5 - Umbarite Scholar
6 - Coastal Fisherman

The old adage applies here: It's your game, do whatever you want to do! If you and your players can handle this kind of character-creation freedom, so be it.

Personally, I'm not interested in it, and as a fan of Cubicle 7's work, I would be critical of (and decry) any fan support/pressure to make such an official supplement a priority when there are soooo many other things that need to be done first.

Rocmistro wrote:The old adage applies here: It's your game, do whatever you want to do! If you and your players can handle this kind of character-creation freedom, so be it.

Personally, I'm not interested in it, and as a fan of Cubicle 7's work, I would be critical of (and decry) any fan support/pressure to make such an official supplement a priority when there are soooo many other things that need to be done first.

Very true. What doesn't work in one person's game might be perfect for another's campaign. I don't see this, though, as something that is likely to receive offical sanction, at least as a standard practice.

Rocmistro wrote:Personally, I'm not interested in it, and as a fan of Cubicle 7's work, I would be critical of (and decry) any fan support/pressure to make such an official supplement a priority when there are soooo many other things that need to be done first.

Agreed! I just want to quickly point out that I've posted (more than once) about how much I'd love to see Corsairs in the game; but I feel that I should clarify that I mean in terms of LM characters, not as player-heroes. That goes against the carefully crafted Tolkien themes of ToR.

An example of an exception that I might consider in my game, however, is someone who wants to play a hero who escapes from the Corsairs - such as a slave that Elessar frees during the War of the Ring. This would simply be his background per se, but the stats would flow with the forthcoming Gondorian supplement. I don't encourage this sort of thing, & am only willing to allow it as an exception for someone who wants to play someone outside the norm.

Mim wrote:Agreed! I just want to quickly point out that I've posted (more than once) about how much I'd love to see Corsairs in the game; but I feel that I should clarify that I mean in terms of LM characters, not as player-heroes. That goes against the carefully crafted Tolkien themes of ToR.

An example of an exception that I might consider in my game, however, is someone who wants to play a hero who escapes from the Corsairs - such as a slave that Elessar frees during the War of the Ring. This would simply be his background per se, but the stats would flow with the forthcoming Gondorian supplement. I don't encourage this sort of thing, & am only willing to allow it as an exception for someone who wants to play someone outside the norm.

So, you mean something like Man of Gondor with a unique Background such as Slave of the Corsairs. Or, another example: Man of the Lake with Immigrant Parent(s) (your father was an Easterling merchant who married a local girl and settled in Lake-town; or your father is a local boatman who brought home a foreign bride). Yeah, that could work with your Loremaster's approval.

Using outside Cultures might just be too difficult even with approval and help from one's Loremaster. There would be a lot of details to work out. What I do like is that a Hero from a hostile Culture would be truly unique and would tend to stand out.

It does seem problematical & I'm not entirely comfortable with the concept. BTW, I haven't done it yet, so I don't know if it will work.

To answer your question, however, yes, I guess it would go something like your example. Mulling this over makes it easy to see why Francesco & the rest of 'em have avoided this topic in the books.

It's enough to give you grey hairs.

Mim wrote:It does seem problematical & I'm not entirely comfortable with the concept. BTW, I haven't done it yet, so I don't know if it will work.

To answer your question, however, yes, I guess it would go something like your example. Mulling this over makes it easy to see why Francesco & the rest of 'em have avoided this topic in the books.

It's enough to give you grey hairs.

Sometimes it might be enough to just tweak an existing Background. You are a Man of the Lake with the Background of Lordling. However, you specify that one of your parents is foreign-born, perhaps the wedding was politically motivated. You are more swarthy than most Lake-towners, maybe olive-skinned, with straight, black hair and dark eyes. In the case of your Gondorean, you still take a suitable standard Background, but incorporate the period of slavery into your personal history.

I'm wondering if any of the issues that have been discussed here will be addressed in the upcoming Adventurer's Companion.

I am not at all certain that every individual among these people's is inimical to the People's of the North all though most certainly are.

For various peoples from the South and East simple geography makes them unlikely candidates for player hero's in my opinion.

I would be happy to see them brought in as NPCs, opposition, etc.

Actually, I would like to have the choice to allow character from hostile cultures in my campaign. If the rules for these cultures are there, it's up to the LM to limit the playable cultures to what fits into his campaign.

That said, I do not think that a whole human culture should be considered "evil" or "wicked". There will always be exceptions, even in cultures under the rule of Sauron. What you do is more important than what you are, I think. Of course, we can debate JRR Tolkiens less-than-politically-correct views on non-European/American cultures and how they inspired his books another time...

For instance, an interesting character could be a Southeron wanderer or maybe even a Black Numenorean exile struggling with the corruption haunting his people?

Again, it's all up to each LM and what fits with each group. I say, the more options, the better.

-Eirik

Eirik, your thoughts echo my own. Every human culture produces its share of wanderers, rebels and iconoclasts, even one as rigid as the Variags of Khand. If those individuals can't find a place to fit in among their own people and they manage to survive to adulthood then they are likely to try to find a place for themselves elsewhere. This is how they might be brought into a LM's campaign. The Adventurers may find themselves an unexpected ally in hostile territory or the new character could be a refugee, a trapper, a trader, or just a lone wanderer.

Not only do we not need to speculate about Tolkien's personal views, but I know of little if any evidence that he had any that could be considered especially "non-policically correct" (except by the standards of his day). Perhaps due to a combination of his South African background and his high degree of education, Tolkien seems to have been exceptionally open-minded for his time on the topics of race and ethnicity.