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Hello
After watching The Hobbit a couple years ago, I was somewhat fascinated by the Erudite language of the Goblin King. So I posted to the tolkien society list asking about this possibility of an educated Goblin/Orc and here was the reply;

This is all just conjecture, but for me; the great goblin was one of the first Uruk-hai. He might have gotten an education in the likes of Umbar, or Gundabad or any other far off place controlled by Sauronic agents.

So this got me thinking and I came to this obvious conclusions, Orcs are just as intelligent as men, and their ilk construct siege engines, fortresses and use other technological tools to achieve their master's ends.

Such Devices and architecture require many disciplines, at least the knowledge of fundamental math and rudimentary physics and the ability to draw up plans for such things.

The reason I am bringing this up is I am writing up a scenario where there is just such an educated Orc Chieftain. In my scenario He has ambitions of one day sacking Azanulinbar-Dum, which is now lightly manned.
In a hidden valley of the Iron Hills he is building an army and prototyping siege equipment for this purpose. So he has drawn up plans for several devices.

One device he has already built, and is used as a defensive piece. You see, unfortunately for him a Cold Drake periodically raids his hold, so he has constructed a ballista to keep it at bay.

The scenario involves the fellowship thwarting his plans, but It would be possible for this ballista to be brought to bear against the fellowship should they try to storm his Hold.

I have some ideas but I fall short in being able to spec out this piece for game play. In my mind it should be a very dangerous obstacle.

I thought of just having it as a plot device that gets fired at them but never hits, but we roll openly at the table and if I rolled real good they would not respect dangerous things like this in the future lol

Does anyone wish to help designing this piece of artillery? Here are a couple ideas I have;
* The skill of the artilleryman firing the piece would matter in its accuracy.
* It takes two to operate.
* Due to the distance of ground the fellowship would have to cover before within the minimum range, Opening volleys would allow 2 shots if the first volley were a great success or better.
* Thereafter it would always fire every other round due to reload time. It would take four turns to cover the approach(due to difficult terrain), so at max it would get 4 shots
* Wound automatically on a successful hit unless an Extraordinary Success on Protection were made. Even then the victim would be rendered Weary.

Any thoughts are welcome and respected
Thanks!

For the way I handle my games large scale battles, like a siege are mostly narration. I think that things like siege engines and such are better off as environmental hazards, rather than something too detailed. Considering that most siege engines weren't constructed to strike targets as small as a person, I think that it would be better to handle them like some sort of explosion which hit the entire area indiscriminately and avoiding the worst of it is up to the characters.

Instead of having it roll to fire I think that it would be better to handle it this way:

• the siege engine automaticly fill an area with "shrapnel" once every X rounds (how often is up to the LM);
• all the character within the area must make an Atheltics test with a TN based on the power of the weapon (I suggest at least 16)
• those who pass the test are okay;
• those who fail lose an amount of Endurance equal to the margin of failure
• on a roll of a "Eye" the character will suffer an automatic wound (powerful I know, but to me a eye means that you're right in the bullseye)

On the subject of orc/goblin intelligence I would like to quote a bit from "The Hobbit":
"Now goblins are cruel, wicked, and bad-hearted. They make no beautiful things, but they make many clever ones. They can tunnel and mine as well as any but the most skilled dwarves, when they take the trouble, though they are usually untidy and dirty. Hammers, axes, swords, daggers, pickaxes, tongs, and also instruments of torture, they make very well, or get other people to make to their design, prisoners and slaves that have to work till they die for want of air and light. It is not unlikely that they invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosions always delighted them, and also not working with their own hands more than they could help; but in those days and those wild parts they had not advanced (as it is called) so far." (J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit, chapter 4)

Based on this, I think it's fair to say that goblins aren't stupid, nor uncultured, but their culture is bent and twisted toward creating for the purpose of destruction. Whereas most of the Free Folks seem more bent toward creating for the purpose of preserving.

I think of devices such as siege engines requiring a kind of organizational planning that is distinct from raw intelligence, and that I don't really associate with orcish society. There may be an intelligent orc leader who both understands how to make a ballista (including iterative testing of his designs) and recognizes the strategic value of it, but I imagine him getting incredibly frustrated with the inability of his underlings to follow orders well enough to get it done.

Your own campaign mileage may vary, of course.

venger wrote:Orcs are just as intelligent as men, and their ilk construct siege engines, fortresses and use other technological tools to achieve their master's ends.

"Now goblins are cruel, wicked, and bad-hearted. They make no beautiful things, but they make many clever ones.They can tunnel and mine as well as any but the most skilled dwarves, when they take the trouble, though they are usually untidy and dirty. Hammers, axes, swords, daggers, pickaxes, tongs, and also instruments of torture, they make very well, or get other people to make to their design, prisoners and slaves that have to work till they die for want of air and light. It is not unlikely that they invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosions always delighted them, and also not working with their own hands more than they could help; but in those days and those wild parts they had not advanced (as it is called) so far."

Woodclaw, I think your idea is a very good solution.
It is simple to use but effective. And has enough variability to make it useful for a wide range of applications.
I especially like the "margin of failure" so if a player is close to success his injury is less.
And rolling an Eye fits with my idea that the artillery should be dangerous to approach.
Thanks for sharing it.

Oh and thanks for the fellows that posted about Tolkien's words on the cunning of Orcs. Its good to know about their cleverness regarding weapons of destruction!

venger wrote:Woodclaw, I think your idea is a very good solution.
It is simple to use but effective. And has enough variability to make it useful for a wide range of applications.
I especially like the "margin of failure" so if a player is close to success his injury is less.
And rolling an Eye fits with my idea that the artillery should be dangerous to approach.
Thanks for sharing it.

Oh and thanks for the fellows that posted about Tolkien's words on the cunning of Orcs. Its good to know about their cleverness regarding weapons of destruction!

You're welcome.