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Re: Playtested Home-Rules, by Michebugio and others
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:42 am
by Glorelendil
Evening wrote:I'm sure someone has already suggested this. If your goal is to reduce endurance loss, why not assign armour ratings which, like shield modifiers, are applied to your Combat TN when you are being attacked. As you are slightly harder to hit due to the TN increase, your endurance loss will be at a slower rate.
Leathers +0
Mail Shirt +1
Mail Coat +2
Mail Hauberk +3
In Forward, if your Parry is 5 and you are wearing a mail shirt, your opponent now needs a 12 (6+5+1) instead of an 11. Doesn't seem like much of an increase but I've seen plenty of rolls failed by 1 point.
So basically some Shield functionality on top of the armor. Interesting...I'll add it to the sim. Brb.
UPDATE: First glance it looks huge. Beoring Errand-Runner, Spear of Giant-Slaying, Spears 3, Coat of Mail and Shield, vs. Orc Chieftan. 10,000 fights.
Without Avenue's Rule: 44% win rate.
With Avenue's Rule: 57% win rate.
Re: Playtested Home-Rules, by Michebugio and others
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:22 am
by Evening
Elfcrusher wrote:
UPDATE: First glance it looks huge. Beoring Errand-Runner, Spear of Giant-Slaying, Spears 3, Coat of Mail and Shield, vs. Orc Chieftan. 10,000 fights.
Without Avenue's Rule: 44% win rate.
With Avenue's Rule: 57% win rate.
Just wondering... the Orc-Chieftan has 3d armour.
Did you give him the +1 armour rating bonus? (the mail shirt equivalent).
Re: Playtested Home-Rules, by Michebugio and others
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:14 am
by Glorelendil
Evening wrote:Elfcrusher wrote:
UPDATE: First glance it looks huge. Beoring Errand-Runner, Spear of Giant-Slaying, Spears 3, Coat of Mail and Shield, vs. Orc Chieftan. 10,000 fights.
Without Avenue's Rule: 44% win rate.
With Avenue's Rule: 57% win rate.
Just wondering... the Orc-Chieftan has 3d armour.
Did you give him the +1 armour rating bonus? (the mail shirt equivalent).
Now that you mention it, no I didn't. I went back and made it fair, and the win rate dropped about 1%.
(Also, he had Splitting Axe, not Giant-Slaying Spear, just noticed the error above.)
EDIT:
I just tried one more thing...I reduced it by 1, so Mail Shirt: no effect, Coat of Mail: +1, Hauberk + 2.
In Mail Shirt win rate (same scenario) was 43%.
In Coat of Mail it was 44% RAW, 50% with Avenue's Rule
In Hauberk it was still 44% RAW, just shy of 58% with Avenue's Rule
Re: Playtested Home-Rules, by Michebugio and others
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:35 am
by Corvo
My thoughts on the rule about armour adding to parry:
+effectively it makes sense. Many blows will just glance on armour.
-armour is basically free. Reinforced shield (+1 parry) comes at the price of a lot of xp. This is worrying to me.
-again parry comes down to equipment. While attack goes up with skill, parry is static or tied to equipment. This is my main problem with the combat rules as written.
Re: Playtested Home-Rules, by Michebugio and others
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:11 pm
by Glorelendil
Corvo wrote:
-armour is basically free. Reinforced shield (+1 parry) comes at the price of a lot of xp. This is worrying to me.
I thought about this too, however we're trying to solve the problem that heavier armor seems to be a net disadvantage. However, this solution may be too strong. Even the stricter version of the rule gave very large benefits.
Re: Playtested Home-Rules, by Michebugio and others
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:06 pm
by Corvo
Elfcrusher wrote:Corvo wrote:
-armour is basically free. Reinforced shield (+1 parry) comes at the price of a lot of xp. This is worrying to me.
I thought about this too, however we're trying to solve the problem that heavier armor seems to be a net disadvantage. However, this solution may be too strong. Even the stricter version of the rule gave very large benefits.
To be fair, I think there are two issues here: 1-that the heavier armours are not so usefuls; 2- that parry is a static value with few modifiers applicable.
That rule is born to adress the first issue, and I concede that it does it nicely.
But as a side effect, that rule put some salt on the open wound of the second issue, so to speak
Re: Playtested Home-Rules, by Michebugio and others
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:38 pm
by Evening
Elfcrusher wrote:
I thought about this too, however we're trying to solve the problem that heavier armor seems to be a net disadvantage. However, this solution may be too strong. Even the stricter version of the rule gave very large benefits.
If I were to adopt this, I would further restrict it to all leather +0, all mail +1.
Corvo wrote: While attack goes up with skill, parry is static or tied to equipment. This is my main problem with the combat rules as written.
I am inclined to think there should be a mechanism for a character to increase their parry either by experience or advancement points, but I think it should be limited to a maximum gain of +2 points. And naturally, gaining those +1 and +2 Parry bonuses should be hideously expensive. IIRC on the old forums, James Brown proposed a Mastery houserule that increases Parry by +1.
Re: Playtested Home-Rules, by Michebugio and others
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:50 pm
by Rich H
Elfcrusher wrote:..I'll add it to the sim.
Would be interested in you adding this rule:
If an EYE is rolled as a protection test then the number of dice of the armour is reduced by 1D to simulate some damage occurring to it. Also means that the heavier armour types have more of a 'buffer' for this occurring more, to address earlier posts that anything above a chain shirt isn't optimal.
Although it would mean the reduction in armour capability being reduced across consecutive fights. I think it will aid in making heavier armour better for extended melee encounters, battles, etc which is fundamentally what much of the motivation in this and other threads is about.
Re: Playtested Home-Rules, by Michebugio and others
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:04 pm
by Glorelendil
Rich H wrote:Elfcrusher wrote:..I'll add it to the sim.
Would be interested in you adding this rule:
If an EYE is rolled as a protection test then the number of dice of the armour is reduced by 1D to simulate some damage occurring to it. Also means that the heavier armour types have more of a 'buffer' for this occurring more, to address earlier posts that anything above a chain shirt isn't optimal.
Although it would mean the reduction in armour capability being reduced across consecutive fights. I think it will aid in making heavier armour better for extended melee encounters, battles, etc which is fundamentally what much of the motivation in this and other threads is about.
I'll add it, but in the sim it will reset for each fight. Stay tuned.
UPDATE:
Working, but doesn't seem to have much/any impact when it resets between fights. I suppose I could give the hero a % chance of repair between fights, and always have the adversary repair.
Any suggestions on what to simulate for this house rule?
Re: Playtested Home-Rules, by Michebugio and others
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:06 pm
by Rich H
Elfcrusher wrote:I'll add it, but in the sim it will reset for each fight. Stay tuned.
Okay but I think that's missing the main reason for adopting the rule - ie, use in sustained/extended combat and battles.