forums.cubicle7.co.uk
archive

Rich H wrote:

Elfcrusher wrote:I'll add it, but in the sim it will reset for each fight. Stay tuned.

Okay but I think that's missing the main reason for adopting the rule - ie, use in sustained/extended combat and battles.

I gave it a 30% chance to "repair" between fights. Still no effect...which seems a little strange. I guess its efficacy would depend on the Edge of the opponent's weapon.

If you want to give me a specific hero and adversary(ies), and a reset %, I'll try again.

Bump for this thread after the recent addition of two more rules, see the FIRST PAGE for details!

Michebugio wrote:EXHAUSTED: When a character's Endurance drops to zero, the character doesn't pass out. Instead, he has a new condition: he is considered EXHAUSTED.
An EXHAUSTED character's Parry drops to zero; he also loses any shield bonus. In any check (included attack checks) except Protection checks, all scores of the feat dices count as zero, except the six (Tengwar), that still counts as a six (and also counts as a great or extraordinary success, where it matters). The character can still spend Hope points with the usual effects.
Any successful attack check against the EXHAUSTED character is considered a Penetrating Strike that doesn't deal Endurance damage, and it requires a Protection check.
If the character gets WOUNDED when he is EXHAUSTED, or if he was already WOUNDED when his Endurance drops to zero, then he drops and he is dying, as usual.
A character who gets EXHAUSTED can choose to drop helpless to the ground instead of fighting (if he is cowardly or smart enough, he can also play dead).
When a character recover at least 1 Endurance point, he is no longer EXHAUSTED.

Rationale: this scene.

Rules symmetry: Great Size ability of big monsters.

Test: At first, odd results. You need to pump up a bit the combat encounters to get this work properly. Your characters may feel somehow immortal and keep fighting, before they'll realize that when they are EXHAUSTED the fight is almost over for them unless they get help soon. Heavier armor makes the difference here: EXHAUSTED characters can still tank the enemies if properly armored, even if they'll get hit all the time, because their armors will soak the Penetrating strikes of lesser weapons. Lightly armored characters, on the other hand, will last no more than 1 or 2 turns in this condition.
Rating: **** and a half. Me and my players find it great and makes the game a little more epic.

There's a similar mechanic in the Warhammer Fantasy RPG (2nd edition at least) where the character start to suffer Critical Damage (a.k.a. mutilations and stuff) only after dropping at 0 wounds. I used a similar mechanic in a self-produced ruleset and it worked pretty well.
My only doubt about this is that it removes the possibility of character passing out from simple Fatigue, I would suggest a slight modification, allowing a character to keep fighting at 0 Endurance by spending a point of Hope and becoming Exhausted in the process. This way a Player have to choose between keep fighting and potentially dying or dropping down and being at the mercy of his opponents.

Woodclaw wrote:There's a similar mechanic in the Warhammer Fantasy RPG (2nd edition at least) where the character start to suffer Critical Damage (a.k.a. mutilations and stuff) only after dropping at 0 wounds. I used a similar mechanic in a self-produced ruleset and it worked pretty well.

You're a sniper: that's EXACTLY where I got the idea from

Woodclaw wrote:My only doubt about this is that it removes the possibility of character passing out from simple Fatigue, I would suggest a slight modification, allowing a character to keep fighting at 0 Endurance by spending a point of Hope and becoming Exhausted in the process. This way a Player have to choose between keep fighting and potentially dying or dropping down and being at the mercy of his opponents.

Good point, I like this. It's also reasonable that a remarkable feat like this requires the expenditure of a Hope point: moreover, you can use this action when defending your Focus, thus immediately gaining the point back (I wonder if Boromir had Merry and/or Pippin as his Focus? ). Modification sold and thank you very much! I'll add it to the main description in the first page.

Michebugio wrote:

Woodclaw wrote:There's a similar mechanic in the Warhammer Fantasy RPG (2nd edition at least) where the character start to suffer Critical Damage (a.k.a. mutilations and stuff) only after dropping at 0 wounds. I used a similar mechanic in a self-produced ruleset and it worked pretty well.

You're a sniper: that's EXACTLY where I got the idea from

Not very hard I GMed two campigns of WFRP and it's one of the games I demo regularly

Michebugio wrote:

Woodclaw wrote:My only doubt about this is that it removes the possibility of character passing out from simple Fatigue, I would suggest a slight modification, allowing a character to keep fighting at 0 Endurance by spending a point of Hope and becoming Exhausted in the process. This way a Player have to choose between keep fighting and potentially dying or dropping down and being at the mercy of his opponents.

Good point, I like this. It's also reasonable that a remarkable feat like this requires the expenditure of a Hope point: moreover, you can use this action when defending your Focus, thus immediately gaining the point back (I wonder if Boromir had Merry and/or Pippin as his Focus? ). Modification sold and thank you very much! I'll add it to the main description in the first page.

You're welcome. As for Boromir's focus ... I kind of doubt that.

I forgot to add the rules for Two Weapon Fighting I created for one of my players, check it out!

Michebugio wrote:RULES FOR TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING: any character who wishes to fight with two weapons designates a primary weapon (wielded in his main hand) and a secondary weapon (wielded in his off-hand). He must have at least 2 points of weapon skill in the primary weapon and at least 1 point in the secondary weapon. The latter must be a one-handed melee weapon with an Encumbrance value of 1 or less.

A character fighting with a secondary weapon in his off-hand adds 1 to his Fatigue score.

If the secondary weapon has an Encumbrance value of 0, it grants the following benefits: in Defensive stance, the wielder gains +1 to his Parry value, as if he was wielding a buckler; in Open and Forward stance, the wielder gains +2 to the Wounding TN of his primary weapon.

If the secondary weapon has an Encumbrance value of 1, it grants the following benefits: in Defensive stance, the wielder gains +1 to his Parry value, as if he was wielding a buckler; in Open and Forward stance, the wielder gains +2 to the primary weapon Damage, and +2 to its Wounding TN.

A successful called shot with a sword against a two-weapon fighter still disarms him of his primary weapon; a successful called shot with an axe breaks his secondary weapon, as if it was a shield.

I don't like this rules that much, while the bit about fatigue and weapon restrictions works, the rest doesn't work with me all that much. Differentiating the weapons based on Encumbrance seem a little too number crunchy for my taste.
Two weapon fighting has always been the black sheep of many RPGs, making them too complex for their own good.

Rationale: two-weapon fighting has been recorded throughout history, albeit it’s a rare form of combat. It should, however, have its place in Middle Earth. And come on, every LM has at least a player who wants to fight with two weapons!

While two-weapon fighting was extremely rare in medieval times (at least as far as I know), there's at least one documented case in the writing of Tolkien that I spotted a few days ago. When Sam charge Shelob he's described wielding his own Numenorean blade in the right hand, while he picked up "Sting" in the left and stroke with both blades.

Michebugio wrote:I forgot to add the rules for Two Weapon Fighting I created for one of my players, check it out!

I like this! I haven't made a direct comparison, but my impression is that you used the rule for using a shield as a secondary weapon as a template.

Hopefully, your Virtue: Two-weapon Fighting (or something equivalent) will be an option for Rangers of the North.

Woodclaw wrote:When Sam charge Shelob he's described wielding his own Numenorean blade in the right hand, while he picked up "Sting" in the left and stroke with both blades.

Well, that's what I call an unsuspecting example Take that, PJ's "double-dagger" Legolas!

But let me show how this situation would be with my rules, then. I don't see that much "number-crunching" actually, just the minimum to have a solid, balanced system.

Sam is fighting with his Numenor small blade, a short sword for sure: Damage 5, TN 14, Encumbrance 1. He has at least 2 points of proficiency in small swords, so he qualifies for fighting with two of them: therefore he grabs Sting (another short sword), hoping to use both blades to increase his chances to wound Shelob. So he's fighting with the two short swords: his fatigue increases by the Encumbrance of Sting (1 point), plus another 1 point on top of that because he is using it in his off-hand. Now the stats are: Damage 7 (5+2), TN 16 (14+2), Encumbrance 3 (1+1+1 for fighting with two weapons).
He thrusts with both weapons and his attack is just slightly less dangerous than a thrust with a longsword wielded with two hands (Damage 7, TN 18, Encumbrance 3).

And that is fair, because what the heck, as the Old Gaffer always says, "two is better than one"!

Otaku-sempai wrote:I haven't made a direct comparison, but my impression is that you used the rule for using a shield as a secondary weapon as a template.

More or less, plus some maths, common sense and historical accuracy. Secondary weapons in realistic, medieval combat are primarily used to deflect (main-gauche) and feint to get better openings, rather than making attacks on their own. I had to be careful to keep it in balance with other possible combinations of shield use and two-handed fighting and that was my primary concern

Hopefully, your Virtue: Two-weapon Fighting (or something equivalent) will be an option for Rangers of the North.

Well that was the easy part, it's the exact copy of Shield-Fighting! Except, of course, that instead of adding the Encumbrance of the weapon to Damage (too low; Shield-Fighting adds the Encumbrance of the shield, which may be A LOT), I added a chance to have a free Penetrating Strike due to an unexpected, well placed off-hand attack.

Michebugio wrote:

Woodclaw wrote:When Sam charged Shelob he's described wielding his own Numenorean blade in the right hand, while he picked up "Sting" in the left and stroke with both blades.

Well, that's what I call an unsuspecting example Take that, PJ's "double-dagger" Legolas!

But let me show how this situation would be with my rules, then. I don't see that much "number-crunching" actually, just the minimum to have a solid, balanced system.

Sam is fighting with his Numenor small blade, a short sword for sure: Damage 5, TN 14, Encumbrance 1. He has at least 2 points of proficiency in small swords, so he qualifies for fighting with two of them: therefore he grabs Sting (another short sword), hoping to use both blades to increase his chances to wound Shelob. So he's fighting with the two short swords: his fatigue increases by the Encumbrance of Sting (1 point), plus another 1 point on top of that because he is using it in his off-hand. Now the stats are: Damage 7 (5+2), TN 16 (14+2), Encumbrance 3 (1+1+1 for fighting with two weapons).
He thrusts with both weapons and his attack is just slightly less dangerous than a thrust with a longsword wielded with two hands (Damage 7, TN 18, Encumbrance 3).

And that is fair, because what the heck, as the Old Gaffer always says, "two is better than one"!

Well, it works. No argument on that. My personal attempt at two-weapon fighting was based on a very different reasoning. In my view of gaming balance fighting with a two-handed weapons provides extra damage, while a shield provide extra defense, which leave open the spot for an improvement to attack, which is suitable for two-weapon style since the opponent would have to defend from two attack points at once.
Hence my rule was basicly that a character fighting with two weapons may roll the feat dice twice and use the best result, but if he does so he must use the secondary weapon damage, edge and injury values (the secondary weapon can't have an encumbrance higher than 1, similar to your rules). And that's pretty much all.