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Well, that's a system thing. According to Tolkien's text, those two races ARE flat out better. Anything that makes them less so is grasping for straws for excuses to hit them with a nerf bat for the sake of balance.

They're not better at everything the game measures. They're not better at, say, resisting corruption than hobbits are.

Elves and Dwarves are superior. Look at those Body and Wits numbers!

Heh. Nobody's superior to anybody else until they've got a total point score higher then 14.

Particularly since Heart is the most powerful attribute.

Woodclaw wrote:Heh. Nobody's superior to anybody else until they've got a total point score higher then 14.

Particularly since Heart is the most powerful attribute.

Yeah, I love to consider it the "hidden" attribute, the one that makes the NPCs say "Well, he's not that fast, strong or smart. But he's got a hell of a heart, that's for sure!"

Angelalex242 wrote:According to Tolkien's text, those two races ARE flat out better

True, but the trick is simple: let's say that a starting, "normal" race character usually begins adventuring already with a strong background, and some years of experience in a bunch of fields.
A starting Noldor or Dùnedain with the same background would have, say, at least 10 experience points and 20 advancement points more than the "lesser races", just because of its "superiority". A starting Noldor or Dùnedain without those points would be just younger and inexperienced members of their race, already formidable enough however to be comparable to a fully grown adventurer of a lesser race: et voilà, now you have character balance without upsetting the game system

Angelalex242 wrote: If Dunedain had base stats that totaled 17, and their favored bonuses were only +3...(0, +1, +2)

And Noldor elves had base stats that totaled 20, but their favored bonuses were +0.

It'd be a firm reminder these two races are just plain superior to normal men and normal elves.

I like this. I don't think it would unbalance the game, but would add diversity. Nice idea, even if just for house-made races.

I've always thought that there should be a way of representing in game terms that the "superior" races (mainly noldor, but also dunedain) are "fading away" from Middle-Earth history and getting tired.

The low Heart attribute of Elves is a nice way of doing this, but also Angelalex's idea is a good one: like seasoned adventurers, who have higher skills but lower Hope, this races could have better "natural capabilities", but couldn't rely so much on doing unexpected feats (i.e. adding a very high number to a favourite skill test).

In fact, in the Third Age, it is a Hobbit who destroys the Ring and a rohir woman who slays the Witch-King. No Glorfindel, no Elrond or no Galadriel even tried to manage such an epic action.

I actually don't have strong feelings either way. I'm just very interested to see what Francesco does since I think you can make persuasive arguments for a variety of positions.

I actually don't have strong feelings either way. I'm just very interested to see what Francesco does since I think you can make persuasive arguments for a variety of positions

Agreed, totally.
I just care to have something entertaining and, yes, balanced to play or loremaster with.
I long to have Dunedains and Rivendell Elves in our adventures, to see how they will mingle in our stories and how players can make their spirit shine through!!!

To be fair to the elves, most of their Noldor badasses pretty much sat on their butts during the war of the ring. In the case of Elrond and Galadriel, it was because they dare not risk Sauron finding out who's got the elven rings. In the case of Glorfindel...I dunno, maybe the dude got lazy. Or maybe Gandalf said no, because it was his idea to put Merry and Pippin in the party instead of Glorfindel and somebody likely as badass as he is.

Of course, Gandalf turned out to be right, cause it worked, so hey.

Angelalex242 wrote:That's an interesting idea.

If Dunedain had base stats that totaled 17, and their favored bonuses were only +3...(0, +1, +2)

And Noldor elves had base stats that totaled 20, but their favored bonuses were +0.

It'd be a firm reminder these two races are just plain superior to normal men and normal elves.

C7 could use the WotC marketing strategy of "power creep via supplements". It works pretty effectively, at least on one sort of gamer.