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Stormcrow wrote:I would avoid a "song list." I believe this would encourage the player to simply "fling songs" at targets, rather than invent creative uses for them on the spot. Such songs would be the very definition of spells.

I agree with Stormcrow. One of the good things about TOR is encouraging the players to be creative and not limit themselves to going over and over the usual lists.

Just be careful not to let the Song skill step on the toes of Lore, Awe, Inspire etc. The song skill is quite versatile and can fill in for a lot of things. (which can be good or bad - depending on your players).

I agree a song list is not the way to go.

A list of example of use is fine though. (I did a list of skill uses somewhere. It's knocking about here if you look).

Hey Jon, thats a pretty cool idea.

The hidden lore that is in music.
Its like the Mother Goose nursery rhyme, "Ring around the Rosie", I read that the song is actually about the Black Plague

http://voices.yahoo.com/ring-around-ros ... 50684.html

Sometimes when situations are stressing me I find that there are unbidden lyrics going around in my head pertaining to that situation, but it's something different than an earworm.
I'm sure everyone has experienced this as well.

Perhaps that "inner voice" could serve (in a gaming sense) to recall some hidden or forgotten lore.
I like this, thanks for your reply!

And thanks RichH for providing an example of usage in your game!

You have very good points Stormcrow and Poosticks.
My first inclination and words to this player were, "We are playing the RAW, and haven't adopted House Rules yet." My group has been playing the RAW for a little over a year now and we are comfortable with it.

He argued that every game system needs tweaks, and I can agree to a certain point.

I suppose I consider accommodating him to a degree because I do feel SONG could play a stronger role in my game, (but I am musically biased), but we haven't had a Hobbit before so don't have the experience of how a RAW Hobbit fits into the big picture mechanics wise.

I'd hope that he could be so creative AND stay in the context of the spirit of TOR and Middle Earth, but he's the type I feel will push it at the table, and I want to avoid grounding the game to a halt in a rules dispute over a rule that doesn't exist. But I wouldn't let that happen anyway.With the RAW there is no dispute, only interpretation.

The player in question has good intentions I believe, but comes from a long D&D background. He's only seen the movies, has not even read Tolkien, except for The Hobbit which I suggested he read for a RP guide. He read it over a weekend. So I'm Not sure how much it influenced him.

He is already suggesting a D&D'ish "Bard" template which I am uncomfortable with. He's just joined our group, made his character at the table, played 4 hours with us last Sunday and is already pressing me for changes without having fully learned or played the RAW.

So your point is valid. This Song list does resemble a Spell list, I don't really want that either. I agree now that you bring it up.

I am concerned IF I do incorporate something of this sort that other D&D templates will start creeping in if I am not firm.
That's why I brought this to the forum for your thoughts.

And thank you all!

venger wrote:Its like the Mother Goose nursery rhyme, "Ring around the Rosie", I read that the song is actually about the Black Plague

It is not: http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp

Snopes is reliable, I stand corrected

I am not sure that a character needs "compensation" for choosing a non-combative role and approach.

Especially in a game like TOR which really emphasizes non-combat activities as valid paths to adventure. If one or more members of the Fellowship are non-combatants be sure to write non-combat encounters and adventures to give them a chance to shine.

Especially in a game like TOR which really emphasizes non-combat activities as valid paths to adventure. If one or more members of the Fellowship are non-combatants be sure to write non-combat encounters and adventures to give them a chance to shine.

Right on. RP is a big part of my Narratives, that's why I chose TOR as well.
I try to encourage role-play instead of roll-play.

Thanks for the reply!

venger wrote:I try to encourage role-play instead of roll-play.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Don't let anyone suggest to you that they are! If someone does, then send them my way.

Rich H wrote:

venger wrote:I try to encourage role-play instead of roll-play.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Don't let anyone suggest to you that they are! If someone does, then send them my way.

Right on! It is a false comparison IMO. Dice rolls do no prevent role-playing and vice versa. I tend to find they help each other by establishing a baseline to create from.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Don't let anyone suggest to you that they are! If someone does, then send them my way.

Right on! It is a false comparison IMO. Dice rolls do no prevent role-playing and vice versa. I tend to find they help each other by establishing a baseline to create from.

Hehe
I meant to say as opposed to just hack n slash all the way. Of course the dice can be useful in role play.