LM Tests - Attribute Bonus and Weariness

[edwardp]

This is a question regarding whether a character can invoke an Attribute bonus after the dice roll. Page 28 of the LM book does not indicate that this is an option.

Also, the Weariness condition is also not called out when making a Test.

From what I am seeing in AB 150, "After the Roll" section spells out Tasks, not Tests. So that is where my confusion comes from. The LM does not specifically call these out as options.

Personally, I would allow them, however not sure if there was some design decision surrounded their omission.


Thanks!
-Ed

[arthyn]

5. All numerical dice results are added up, to find the action result.

a. Weariness. If the acting character is Weary, all Success dice results in outline are ignored (i.e.: they are considered to have given a result of zero).

b. Attribute bonus. A player may invoke an Attribute bonus and add the pertinent Attribute score (or favoured Attribute, if appropriate) to the rolled total.

AB p150

I've always assumed it played just like it read. You roll, add your dice, and if you find your score wanting use a point of Hope to add the Attribute bonus. So, it would always be after the roll, since you won't know if you need it until then anyway.

Wearied state doesn't require a call , you just ignore 1 - 3 on the success dice. My players are generally honest enough to keep track on their side of the table, and I usually don't need to remind them.

~Arthyn

[Heilemann]

That's how I play it too.

[Woodclaw]

Same here. The difference between Tasks and Tests is 99% concept rather than mechanical. A Task is generally called by a player to obtain a result, whereas a Test is called by the LM to avoid something.

[Stormcrow]

Here are the sequences for both tasks and tests, as given in the books.

Tasks

1. Statement of Intent
   1. The player describes the task being attempted.
   2. The player chooses the skill to use.
   3. The player decides what happens if the task is successful.
2. The Loremaster sets the difficulty of the task.
3. The player announces the use of any applicable special ability.
4. The player rolls the dice.
   • If the roll indicates a failure, the player may invoke an attribute bonus.
5. Consequences
   • Success: The player narrates how his objective was achieved.
   • Failure: The Loremaster narrates the consequences of the failed task.

Tests

1. Announcement
   1. The Loremaster announces who is going to roll.
   2. The Loremaster announces what ability will be tested.
2. The Loremaster sets the difficulty of the test.
3. The players announce the use of any applicable special abilities.
4. The players or the Loremaster roll the dice.
5. The Loremaster narrates the consequences of the successful or failed test.

Notice that the procedure for tests does not include a chance for players to spend a point of Hope. I suspect this to be an oversight, not intentional. Is there any instance in the rules that shows Hope being spent on a test? (Supplements confuse the issue by routinely ignoring the task/test distinction, and simply calling for a "roll.")

[Woodclaw]

Here are the sequences for both tasks and tests, as given in the books.

Tasks

1. Statement of Intent
   1. The player describes the task being attempted.
   2. The player chooses the skill to use.
   3. The player decides what happens if the task is successful.
2. The Loremaster sets the difficulty of the task.
3. The player announces the use of any applicable special ability.
4. The player rolls the dice.
   • If the roll indicates a failure, the player may invoke an attribute bonus.
5. Consequences
   • Success: The player narrates how his objective was achieved.
   • Failure: The Loremaster narrates the consequences of the failed task.

Tests

1. Announcement
   1. The Loremaster announces who is going to roll.
   2. The Loremaster announces what ability will be tested.
2. The Loremaster sets the difficulty of the test.
3. The players announce the use of any applicable special abilities.
4. The players or the Loremaster roll the dice.
5. The Loremaster narrates the consequences of the successful or failed test.

Notice that the procedure for tests does not include a chance for players to spend a point of Hope. I suspect this to be an oversight, not intentional. Is there any instance in the rules that shows Hope being spent on a test? (Supplements confuse the issue by routinely ignoring the task/test distinction, and simply calling for a "roll.")

I agree that this is most likely an oversight, it should be posted noted for the revised version of the rules.

[Stormcrow]

Here's a minor quotation that confirms you can spend Hope on tests: "When a player is using a Weapon skill to resolve a test, he may spend a point of Hope to invoke a Body Attribute bonus." AB 160

[Michebugio]

A note (and maybe a question) about Hope expenditure: check AB page 150, "After the roll" (I have the italian version so maybe page and translation may be not correct).

It says: When the roll is a failure, the player who acts can invoke an Attribute bonus [...]. If the modified result now equals or exceeds the TN of the test, the failure becomes a success and the player spends a point of Hope.

That means that, essentially, a Hope point is never wasted, since you spend it only after the action and if the result is now a success. In fact, the text above implies (or maybe it's just my interpretation) that if the roll is still a failure (even adding the Attribute bonus), the player can choose to keep his Hope point.

Am i wrong here?

[Woodclaw]

A note (and maybe a question) about Hope expenditure: check AB page 150, "After the roll" (I have the italian version so maybe page and translation may be not correct).

It says: When the roll is a failure, the player who acts can invoke an Attribute bonus [...]. If the modified result now equals or exceeds the TN of the test, the failure becomes a success and the player spends a point of Hope.

That means that, essentially, a Hope point is never wasted, since you spend it only after the action and if the result is now a success. In fact, the text above implies (or maybe it's just my interpretation) that if the roll is still a failure (even adding the Attribute bonus), the player can choose to keep his Hope point.

Am i wrong here?

I don't know if you're wrong or not, but that's how I interpreted the rule as well.

[Stormcrow]

That's exactly how Hope is used. You only spend Hope when it turns failure into success.