Location of old Laketown ruinds

[edwardp]

Good morning,

I can't seem to find a map or reference describing the location of the ruins of old Laketown in relation to new Laketown. Was new Laketown built on top of the old ruins?

Any thoughts?

[Michebugio]

The new was presumably built on top of the old, but remember also that Laketown was made almost entirely of wood, and it was attacked by a true fire Dragon: one can guess that almost nothing of it would have remained, at least not "ruins", except maybe some burnt stump of the old foundations now lying underneath the new city.

While, of course, the giant bones of Smaug are still there, at the bottom of the Long Lake somewhere near the town... as also his invulnerable scales (dragonscale armor, anyone?), or many of the gems that adorned them

[Stormcrow]

There certainly are remains. "There for ages his huge bones could be seen in calm weather amid the ruined piles of the old town."

Remember also that when Bilbo arrives in Lake-town there are remains from the FIRST Lake-town, or at least a larger extent of the current town. "The rotting piles of a greater town could still be seen along the shores when the waters sank in a drought."

The new town is not built on top of the old: "and also under the [new] Master's direction they began the planning of a new town, designed more fair and large even than before, but not in the same place. They removed northward higher up the shore; for ever after they had a dread of the water where the dragon lay..."

[edwardp]

Remember also that when Bilbo arrives in Lake-town there are remains from the FIRST Lake-town, or at least a larger extent of the current town. "The rotting piles of a greater town could still be seen along the shores when the waters sank in a drought."

Isn't there a Monty Python skit in there somewhere? "That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp..."

The new town is not built on top of the old: "and also under the [new] Master's direction they began the planning of a new town, designed more fair and large even than before, but not in the same place. They removed northward higher up the shore; for ever after they had a dread of the water where the dragon lay..."

That's exactly what I was looking for. Where was that cited from?

So here's a recap:
The original Laketown was built and likely expanded over the years.
Due to something, some of the original Laketown was lost and the ruins could still be seen in Bilbo's visit.
The original Laketown was destroyed by Smaug.
A new Laketown was built, further to the north, I'm assuming along the same shore of the lake.

Thanks!
-Ed

[Hermes Serpent]

It's a quote from the beginning of Chapter X of the Hobbit.

"Not far from the mouth of the Forest River was the strange town he heard the elves speak of in the king’s cellars. It was not built on the shore, though there were a few huts and buildings there, but right out on the surface of the lake, protected from the swirl of the entering river by a promontory of rock which formed a calm bay. A great bridge made of wood ran out to where on huge piles made of forest trees was built a busy wooden town, not a town of elves but of Men, who still dared to dwell here under the shadow of the distant dragon-mountain. They still throve on the trade that came up the great river from the South and was carted past the falls to their town; but in the great days of old, when Dale in the North was rich and prosperous, they had been wealthy and powerful, and there had been fleets of boats on the waters, and some were filled with gold and some with warriors in armour, and there had been wars and deeds which were now only a legend. The rotting piles of a greater town could still be seen along the shores when the waters sank in a drought."

There is a picture of Lake-town in some versions of the book.

So there is the town seen by Bilbo as above, an earlier larger town (the rotting piles), and one further North from the town seen by Bilbo that was built after the fight with Smaug.