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Jon Hodgson wrote:It's odd (to my ear at least) to hear talk of bucklers being strapped on. A buckler is held in the fist, much like the shields we depicted in TOR - viking and saxon shield types that aren't strapped on at all. The name buckler comes not from buckles of straps, but from the french for "boss".

Mike Loades is as good value as ever on the topic of shields, especially early medieval shields in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWZkitw1_Fw

/shieldnerd

Thanks to Jon for beating me at this.
Bucklers and other type of extra small shields were used aggresively to beat the opponent's weapon out of trajectory, whereas larger shields were used just to provide some for of cover. Trying to deflect a weapon with some strapped to your wrist instead of held in your hand is quite the nightmare (unless you're Wonder Woman).

This is all really interesting, but how do I throw my shield and have it come back to me?

And when sharpening the edge of that shield, do you hold it to the spinning whetstone, or do you spin the shield and hold the whetstone to it?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Elfcrusher wrote:This is all really interesting, but how do I throw my shield and have it come back to me?

I don't know. I'm pretty good at throwing axes and dagger and I'm working on spears, but I haven't tried to throw a shild yet.

And when sharpening the edge of that shield, do you hold it to the spinning whetstone, or do you spin the shield and hold the whetstone to it?

I'll have to ask, but I suppose that it might be done in a fashion similar to a how you sharpen a food cutter blade (at least for round shields).

Jon Hodgson wrote:It's odd (to my ear at least) to hear talk of bucklers being strapped on. A buckler is held in the fist, much like the shields we depicted in TOR - viking and saxon shield types that aren't strapped on at all. The name buckler comes not from buckles of straps, but from the french for "boss".

Mike Loades is as good value as ever on the topic of shields, especially early medieval shields in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWZkitw1_Fw

/shieldnerd

Understood, Jon, but nevertheless the game was published with rules suggesting that at least in some instances (The Spearman's Shield Elven Reward), two handed weapons could be used in tandem with bucklers (many games do and have done this, hence the flawed 'using-RPG-games-as-historical-instruction' reasoning of which I am admittedly guilty). The only way that *I* can conceive that happening is if the buckler is affixed to the forearm, and I suppose that this Elven Reward subconsciously anchored in my mind the idea that in TOR, bucklers are affixed rather than wielded. I certainly don't care to go down the well-worn and cliche path of examining any RPG armaments (TOR or otherwise) from a truly historical perspective, but I think you need to grant me (and any others who made a similar error) a little leeway when the only mention of "buckler" in your system (with respect to how it's desployed) implies strapping.

In any case, I didn't mean to suggest with any authority how bucklers are or were used, or that one way is better than the other, or that TOR bucklers should or shouldn't be written, gamed, governed or Loremastered a certain way. Hence why I disclaimed my previous post with:

But I have never marched, drilled or fought with a buckler so I don't know for sure.

(I suppose, in hindsight, maybe that should have come first; here's to hoping you fine gentelmen will grant me some clemency in the matter.)

Rocmistro wrote:Interestingly enough, I think it might be tougher to get a buckler off your arm than a full great shield! Since the buckler is ONLY strapped on, i imagine it has to be tighter to prevent it from being knocked off your arm or at least knocked out of place. But I have never marched, drilled or fought with a buckler so I don't know for sure.

There are no convincing images (at least to me) of "strap on" bucklers.

But those aren't the same as a targe in a large buckler size (10"-12"), which are documented from the reiver era. The targe's straps aren't usually adjusted much - one's a small strap for the hand, which one slides the hand into; the other is a cuff opposite it. It's an incredibly secure rig, but isn't tight on the arm. Relax your hand, swing your arm, and it's off (but may take your glove with). Larger targes usually use the same rigging. I've used the same small targe in fencing with rapier, cut and thrust, and SCA heavy. I suspect the small size was to make it easier to hide... and small ones generally don't have a boss.

Bucklers proper usually have a boss, a rigid handle, and can be either rigged so that the boss is where the fingers are, or so that the back is flat with a handle behind. Typical are round or square metal, or multi-layer riveted leather. I much prefer a leather buckler - both more comfortable, and less prone to being damaged.

There are some illustrations of archers or gunners with a small (10-12") shield on their left vambrace. That location won't work nearly as well; my own theory is that it's a variation of the Targe rig, and just slid down for actual defense if engaged. These are mostly early renaissance, and well past what Tolkien uses.

Oh, and Bucklers are generally late era, but Gimli sings of one in LOTR Vol 1, and Vol 2 has mention of them, as well. No descriptions, tho.

The only account of strapped on buckler type shields, that I know of, are those accounts of Persian archers carrying small shields on their arms (Herodotus / Demosthenes).

It must be so hard wielding Long sword and the Axe when you are in the arena and fighting someone in the oldest years.


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