Passing down Cultural Rewards to other Cultures?

[PaulButler]

So, given that most "special" weapons and items are gained by experience and not treasure looting in this game, an interesting question arose recently.
When a character dies, how do you handle passing on their Rewards? Sure, if it's the same player creating a new character who is the biological or spiritual descendant of the deceased PC, you can pass the Reward along as part of the Heroic Heritage rules, but let's say a PC dies and another PC wants to claim one of the dead PC's items as a keepsake? (Not entirely unlike Aragorn taking Boromir's bracers in Jackson's Fellowship of the Ring film.)

Would you allow it? And maybe let them fully use it after their next Valour upgrade (as it gets re-fitted or something) Or maybe allow it immediately, but they don't get their next Valour upgrade in exchange?

This came up recently in my game after an Elf character died. It's very likely the Woodman PC may want to take the Elf's Spearman's Shield as a way to honor the dead.
Thoughts?

[Heilemann]

I think it's generally accepted that people are buried with their weapons and armour.

[Hermes Serpent]

Burying people with armour and weapons is almost de rigeur if only so that it provides adventure hooks for the company in so many ways - preventing someone from opening the tomb and taking them, opening the tomb and taking them, murder over the stolen weapons and armour. So many hooks and so little time to play.

In addition the books are full of people who had been buried with their armour and weapons.

[Otaku-sempai]

I think it's generally accepted that people are buried with their weapons and armour.

If the cultural reward is a hound or other beast then that might not work out so well. I would say that if a cultural reward is passed on to another player, not of that culture, then that player does not receive the full cultural benefits for that item. However, the item functions as at least a normal item of that type--perhaps better pending Loremaster approval.

[Yusei]

If the cultural reward is a hound or other beast then that might not work out so well..

But the animal has no bond with the new character. Earning it's loyalty might be an adventure in itself (and it would become a normal virtue/reward).

I imagine a dog would mourn for its previous owner, and maybe stay close to his grave. Until, for some reason, the need would arise and it would decide to help the new character. It could be a sad and beautiful moment.

[Glorelendil]

You put the body in a boat, pile weapons and armor on top, and float it down a river toward a big waterfall.

I read that somewhere.

[Thig]

Or you put them in a Mathom house only to go get them again for a likely heir... Or put it in an envelope then leave/retire for Rivendell and leave it on the mantelpiece...

I think theres enough in the tales to provide reasons to hand over items to friends or heirs too.

I also think its both highly risky for game balance but also potentially great story.

I do think what the powers an item might have should be very carefully considered if you are considering it. A King's Blade gifted to a Beorning upon the death of his fellowship focus might have powers related to an oath tied to it upon character death/retirement. " I swear to you my little brother I will carve a path through the minons of our foe and then I shall lay him low even with this blade of yours! Then I shall cross the Misty Mountains and find these strange lands of yours and bury this fair blade beside you to guard you and so that you know it is done!"

Then like the Shield of Gondor in another thread I would happily see, subtle bonus, possibly ambiguous, is it the wielder's passion or some spark of almost magic? So like discussed in that thread, lowering of TN's for Intimidate foe, or allowing an attack when doing so etc. On top of that it is conditional to situation/foe - something when fighting the said chief foe.

Finally theres the whole 'oathes to the dead' (or retired character, or retired then dying of old age and waiting for the oath to be settled if the player is up for killing off his retired character for this sake) angle. What if he doesn't give the 'sword' up when it's time? Theres lots of that in Tolkien. What if he loses it? What if he cant find where to bury it? The potential of failing has so much to give for storyline purposes imo. Plenty of similar things in the books and TOR can handle it effortlessly. Shadow points/flaws spring to mind here but I'm sure theres other ways of handling this kind of thing too. Lower resistence to taunts from (certain) enemies, fear tests (when faced with failures), higher TNs when dealing with certain characters, or races, or even refusal to allow entry to some places like Elvenking's halls and rolling an Eye when using it does what? What can forces of shadow see in this case in the character and what can they attempt to seduce the character with, a release from the oath? A way of foiling the broken word of the character?

Theres also the question of do the characters know the qualities of each other's weapons? They might know the Hobbit found the blade and it looks ancient etc but none of the items glow... Essentially the powers in weapons of this kind are 'part of the character'.

[Stormcrow]

You're all supposing players will cooperate and allow fancy weapons and armor to be buried with the dead character. No one I've ever gamed with would allow that. Sure, you could threaten Shadow points, but the people I know would complain about that, and finally swallow it and accept Shadow points for magic goodies.

So the original question remains: assuming players don't want to go along with cultural reasons why they wouldn't want to keep their dead comrades' fancy stuff, what do you do?

First of all, any such equipment has absolutely no protected status. If a hobbit with a King's Blade somehow loses it, it'll be replaced somehow, or he'll have an opportunity for a new reward or virtue. If a woodman takes his dead hobbit friend's King's Blade, he'd better not lose it, because there will be no replacement.

[Yusei]

No one I've ever gamed with would allow that.

Seriously? My current group will happily follow the spirit of the rules, as long as we can find a plausible in-game explanation.

So the original question remains: assuming players don't want to go along with cultural reasons why they wouldn't want to keep their dead comrades' fancy stuff, what do you do?

Most of the time I would rule that they are unfamiliar with the stuff, and don't get any technical advantage from using it, until they spend XP. If it's not possible (eg. a sword glows in the dark), then fine, but as you said, it has no plot immunity.

[Stormcrow]

Seriously? My current group will happily follow the spirit of the rules, as long as we can find a plausible in-game explanation.

They would just consider it being practical. After all, when Sam left Frodo for dead, he took Sting because he'd need it, and left behind his sword of Westernesse. In fact, I can't think of an instance where a "magic item" that was urgently needed was left behind with its dead owner. Swords that get buried do so when the war is over. Boromir's horn was cloven in two. They didn't need his elven cloak; they had their own. The only exception is when Sam leaves Frodo wearing his mithril shirt; it would be too ghoulish to undress Frodo's "dead" body for it.