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Re: Mithril!
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:08 am
by Beran
Mithril is mentioned at least once in DoM, How would you duplicate the effects of Mithril in the game?
Re: Mithril!
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:01 pm
by Rocmistro
Michebugio wrote:
Rocmistro wrote:I think the way I'd handle it as that if a player had 3 qualities to a chain shirt, hauberk or coat, then "bam" you are free to call it mithril. And then nothing else special happens.
A bit sad solution, but it's the only viable one right now.
Rocmistro wrote:I'm ok with introducing "magic items" to an RPG, the only issue is that you have to either make them available for everyone or no-one, lest one person become out of balance with the others.
As a GM, I have used "magic items" in the past to allow a horribly designed hero to become more effective (I have one player in my group who always insists on making sucky characters and then complaining that he cannot do anything good with them....but that is something you have to be careful about, for as soon as you give one player a magic item, everyone will be looking to get something cool. And then you have a Middle-earth campaign with 4-6 magic items in it, which then becomes...decidely un Middle-earthy. (At least I think so)
This begs an interesting question; do you interpret cultural rewards in TOR as "magic items"? Or any items that have gotten a certain number of qualities assigned to them?
It actually puzzles me why one would consider Mithril armors "magic items". The question didn't even came in my mind. Mithril is simply a material, albeit an extraordinary one: you could say it's a "magic" metal, or you could say it's "just" a metal with exceptional properties. After all, there are some modern alloys that would be probably considered "magic" by a man from the past.
And by the way, who could say what is really "magic" and what is not, in Middle Earth?
I didn't say Mithril was a magic item. I was asking that question independently of the mithril discussion.
I suppose what I did do (in my own mind), was extrapolate Mithril out from the basic qualities that one could generate using the TOR system of rewards, and then equate it's "specialness" with that found in magic items. I then lumped all of these together under the umbrella of "Magic Items" (I suppose I attempted to convey that I was not being literal by having the quotes around it). I then submitted that for a question: "Do you interpret TOR rewards as "magic items".
The question still stands and I'd love to hear people's thoughts.
Re: Mithril!
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 2:51 pm
by Woodclaw
Rocmistro wrote:Michebugio wrote:
Rocmistro wrote:I think the way I'd handle it as that if a player had 3 qualities to a chain shirt, hauberk or coat, then "bam" you are free to call it mithril. And then nothing else special happens.
A bit sad solution, but it's the only viable one right now.
Rocmistro wrote:I'm ok with introducing "magic items" to an RPG, the only issue is that you have to either make them available for everyone or no-one, lest one person become out of balance with the others.
As a GM, I have used "magic items" in the past to allow a horribly designed hero to become more effective (I have one player in my group who always insists on making sucky characters and then complaining that he cannot do anything good with them....but that is something you have to be careful about, for as soon as you give one player a magic item, everyone will be looking to get something cool. And then you have a Middle-earth campaign with 4-6 magic items in it, which then becomes...decidely un Middle-earthy. (At least I think so)
This begs an interesting question; do you interpret cultural rewards in TOR as "magic items"? Or any items that have gotten a certain number of qualities assigned to them?
It actually puzzles me why one would consider Mithril armors "magic items". The question didn't even came in my mind. Mithril is simply a material, albeit an extraordinary one: you could say it's a "magic" metal, or you could say it's "just" a metal with exceptional properties. After all, there are some modern alloys that would be probably considered "magic" by a man from the past.
And by the way, who could say what is really "magic" and what is not, in Middle Earth?
I didn't say Mithril was a magic item. I was asking that question independently of the mithril discussion.
I suppose what I did do (in my own mind), was extrapolate Mithril out from the basic qualities that one could generate using the TOR system of rewards, and then equate it's "specialness" with that found in magic items. I then lumped all of these together under the umbrella of "Magic Items" (I suppose I attempted to convey that I was not being literal by having the quotes around it). I then submitted that for a question: "Do you interpret TOR rewards as "magic items".
The question still stands and I'd love to hear people's thoughts.
It depends on the source. Item qualities are -- for me -- just a mechanical effect, the nature of it's up to the players and LM's imagination.
For example:
A Beorning might inherit his grandfather's axe, which is actually a gift from a wandering dwarf, who the old Beorning saved from a pack of wargs. The balde of the axe was forged by the dwarves of the Iron Hills and its edge is surprisingly keen.
An Elf might find rest at the Hall of the Elven King and a mysterious spirit of the forest bless his spear to make it even more deadly against the orcs that are ravaging the woods.
In game terms both weapons are now keen, but the nature of that enhancement is quite different.
Re: Mithril!
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:10 pm
by Otaku-sempai
FYI: TSR/Wizards of the Coast use an alternate spelling, mithral, to avoid trademark infringement. As for the value of mithril, Bilbo's mithril shirt was said to be worth more than the entire net worth of the Shire.
What should be the in-game effects of mithril equipment? For armour, I would suggest that Encumberance should be at least halved. Because of the hardness of mithril, the amount of protection should be at least 1d extra.
Mithril weapons should be virtually unbreakable. Since weapon encumberance as as much to do with bulk as with weight, perhaps reduce Encumberance by only 1 (Encumberance of 0 remains as 0). A mithril blade should be able to keep an edge better than blades made with other materials. Suggestion: Any weapon made of mithril should be treated as having the quality of Fell.
Addendum
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 pm
by Otaku-sempai
For some reason I am presently unable to edit my previous post. Upon further thought, perhaps a mithril weapon should possess the qualities of both Keen and Fell. Or would that be too much?
Re: Mithril!
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:23 pm
by Rocmistro
I think one of the reasons the authors avoided describing anything with "Mithril" is precisely what you said, Otaku.
Since the value of Bilbo's shirt was worth all of the Shire, a quick player will quickly recognize this and then you're going to get:
"I trade in my Mithril shirt to buy [the Shire] or [Rhudaur] or [Laketown]" etc. etc.
Re: Mithril!
Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 10:50 pm
by Beran
Rocmistro wrote:I think one of the reasons the authors avoided describing anything with "Mithril" is precisely what you said, Otaku.
Since the value of Bilbo's shirt was worth all of the Shire, a quick player will quickly recognize this and then you're going to get:
"I trade in my Mithril shirt to buy [the Shire] or [Rhudaur] or [Laketown]" etc. etc.
That is kind of a ridiculous supposition, really; as no one person can sell a region. Besides as I have mentioned above Mithril has been used in the DoM at least once. It is probably more along the lines of the rarity of mithril items rather then actual worth.
Re: Mithril!
Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 7:34 am
by Woodclaw
Beran wrote:Rocmistro wrote:I think one of the reasons the authors avoided describing anything with "Mithril" is precisely what you said, Otaku.
Since the value of Bilbo's shirt was worth all of the Shire, a quick player will quickly recognize this and then you're going to get:
"I trade in my Mithril shirt to buy [the Shire] or [Rhudaur] or [Laketown]" etc. etc.
That is kind of a ridiculous supposition, really; as no one person can sell a region. Besides as I have mentioned above Mithril has been used in the DoM at least once. It is probably more along the lines of the rarity of mithril items rather then actual worth.
Believe me I had players who would do that kind of things without thinking about it twice.
Re: Mithril!
Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 12:12 pm
by Valarian
While a Mithril shirt may have the theoretical value greater than the worth of The Shire, I can't see many Hobbits trading their farm for a share in a shiny shirt, no matter how pretty. In order to sell something, you would have to have a buyer. No buyer, no deal. There's a reason that Bilbo's shirt sat in the Mathom house for years.
Re: Mithril!
Posted: Fri May 09, 2014 1:09 pm
by Rocmistro
Beran:
It was meant as a little tongue in cheek, but the concern also stands for less-than-purely-mature players.
Valarian:
I meant it as the other way around (they sell or trade the MIthril shirt for "whatever")