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"Mithril! All folk desired it. It could be beaten like copper, and polished like glass; and the Dwarves could make of it a metal, light and yet harder than tempered steel. Its beauty was like to that of common silver, but the beauty of mithril did not tarnish or grow dim."

"Also there is this!" said Bilbo, bringing out a parcel which seemed to be rather heavy for its size. He unwound several folds of old cloth, and held up a small shirt of mail. It was close-woven of many rings, as supple almost as linen, cold as ice, and harder than steel. It shone like moonlit silver, and was studded with white gems.

But the question is: will we ever see Mithril in The One Ring? The following quote is taken from Wikipedia:

The Saul Zaentz Company owns all trademark and certain other rights derived from the names of places, characters and things described in J.R.R. Tolkien's novels The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, as well as in the highly successful feature films based on those books. The Saul Zaentz Company has used the mark Mithril for many years in connection with a variety of things, including for example, collectible figurines, online role-playing video games and entertainment services.

Does this prevent Cubicle 7 from using Mithril in their books?

After a quick search in the forums, I wasn’t able to find out if this question has been addressed before.

I hope we will see Mithril in future supplements, but if the copyright issue above is a true obstacle, how would you circumvent this in your campaigns?

Would you simply represent a Mithril armor as any chain armor (or a Lucky Armor, or an Ancient Hauberk) with x3 Cunning Make reward on it? Or would you consider it an even lighter material, maybe stating that if you can afford, or even find, an armor made of Mithril (perhaps only at the cost of Treasure points, or above a certain Standing scores) you can apply the Cunning Make, say, 4 times instead of 3?

We know that Mithril armors stopped being forged after the fall of Moria, since it was the only place in Middle Earth that we know of (at least in the Third Age) where it could be extracted: but it is reasonable to expect that a certain amount of armor specimens can still be found here and there (especially among the Dwarves).
And if I correctly recall, Gondorian Helms were also made of Mithril.

Please share you thoughts

Middle-earth Enterprises is an off-shoot of The Saul Zaentz Company, so the use of the word mithril (or the alternate terms silver-steel, Moria-silver and true silver) for TOR should not be a problem.

I don't see why C7 couldn't use it. Other things, such as D&D, World of Warcraft, and even Runescape use the Mithril, and they aren't Lotr related at all. So I don't see why they couldn't.

That being said, I couldn't imagine what sort of treasure cost mithril would have. I believe in one of the TOR books it mentions a mithril button being worth a treasure point. A single button, not even anything that was crafted with the skill and precision of armor. So I would say its cost would be unreasonable for a party. Finding mithril, on the other hand, would be more feasible. I'd assume it would have very low emcumbrance and provide 6d of protection, extremely powerful item. I wouldn't expect it to be used in this matter. Maybe a mithril helm that was light weight and provided high protection, or a mithril weapon that had low enc and high injury or something.

Also you need to be aware of the differences between a trademark and copyrighted material.

I'd be nervous about going in this direction for unbalancing reasons. I think the way I'd handle it as that if a player had 3 qualities to a chain shirt, hauberk or coat, then "bam" you are free to call it mithril. And then nothing else special happens.

I'm ok with introducing "magic items" to an RPG, the only issue is that you have to either make them available for everyone or no-one, lest one person become out of balance with the others.

As a GM, I have used "magic items" in the past to allow a horribly designed hero to become more effective (I have one player in my group who always insists on making sucky characters and then complaining that he cannot do anything good with them....but that is something you have to be careful about, for as soon as you give one player a magic item, everyone will be looking to get something cool. And then you have a Middle-earth campaign with 4-6 magic items in it, which then becomes...decidely un Middle-earthy. (At least I think so)

This begs an interesting question; do you interpret cultural rewards in TOR as "magic items"? Or any items that have gotten a certain number of qualities assigned to them?

Dreyton wrote:That being said, I couldn't imagine what sort of treasure cost mithril would have. I believe in one of the TOR books it mentions a mithril button being worth a treasure point.

My thought is that like all Rewards, a Mithril shirt shouldn't need to have a cost, or to spend Treasure points to acquire one. After all, how many treasure points is worth a Spear of Bladorthin? Or an Ancient Hauberk? No need to know: you would simply receive one as a reward for your deeds.

Rocmistro wrote:I think the way I'd handle it as that if a player had 3 qualities to a chain shirt, hauberk or coat, then "bam" you are free to call it mithril. And then nothing else special happens.

A bit sad solution, but it's the only viable one right now.

Rocmistro wrote:I'm ok with introducing "magic items" to an RPG, the only issue is that you have to either make them available for everyone or no-one, lest one person become out of balance with the others.

As a GM, I have used "magic items" in the past to allow a horribly designed hero to become more effective (I have one player in my group who always insists on making sucky characters and then complaining that he cannot do anything good with them....but that is something you have to be careful about, for as soon as you give one player a magic item, everyone will be looking to get something cool. And then you have a Middle-earth campaign with 4-6 magic items in it, which then becomes...decidely un Middle-earthy. (At least I think so)

This begs an interesting question; do you interpret cultural rewards in TOR as "magic items"? Or any items that have gotten a certain number of qualities assigned to them?

It actually puzzles me why one would consider Mithril armors "magic items". The question didn't even came in my mind. Mithril is simply a material, albeit an extraordinary one: you could say it's a "magic" metal, or you could say it's "just" a metal with exceptional properties. After all, there are some modern alloys that would be probably considered "magic" by a man from the past.

And by the way, who could say what is really "magic" and what is not, in Middle Earth?

I'd personally caution against jumping in and developing such treasure for your own game considering that Rivendell is the next release in this line and it's write-up quite clearly states:

... There are also rules for creating your own Magical Treasure

I'd hang on and see what content that includes rather than make decisions now which may not be compatible with what Francesco et al has produced in that book.

Decipher didn't have any problem with mentioning Mithril in their LoTR RPG. They even had Mithril armour on the equipment charts; and it did what it advertised. So, I don't see why C7 would have problems with it. I think it just has to do with "how do you replicate the effect in the game system?"

Still, I wonder why didn't they put Mithril chainmails in the Adventurer's Book.

After all, Bilbo's shirt comes from Erebor, and it is very unlikely (at least to my eyes) that the shirt was the only Mithril armor among the fabled riches of the Lone Mountain. More of them simply must be stored somewhere, and if they are not in Erebor, in the very heart of Dwarven Kingdoms (and trading routes), I really don't know where else they could be.
So one could argue that armors made with the same material would be available as a Reward for the Dwarves, since they are a playable race in the AB.

But again, such armors could be simply Cunning Make x3 Ancient Hauberks.

Rich H wrote:I'd personally caution against jumping in and developing such treasure for your own game considering that Rivendell is the next release in this line and it's write-up quite clearly states:

... There are also rules for creating your own Magical Treasure

I'd hang on and see what content that includes rather than make decisions now which may not be compatible with what Francesco et al has produced in that book.

... as if the hype for Rivendell wasn't high enough already, Rich

By the way, that phrase puzzles me a lot. I really wonder what do they mean with Magical Treasure.

Michebugio wrote:

Rich H wrote:I'd personally caution against jumping in and developing such treasure for your own game considering that Rivendell is the next release in this line and it's write-up quite clearly states:

... There are also rules for creating your own Magical Treasure

I'd hang on and see what content that includes rather than make decisions now which may not be compatible with what Francesco et al has produced in that book.

... as if the hype for Rivendell wasn't high enough already, Rich

By the way, that phrase puzzles me a lot. I really wonder what do they mean with Magical Treasure.

My guess is that magical treasures are items possessing some degree of abilities that can't be explain simply with high level manufacture. Even if some of these abilities are mundane in scope and effect they're not a "natural" part of an item description.