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Michebugio wrote:Read above, Rich

Gotcha!

Michebugio wrote:Would you allow it?

Yep. You trust he's engaging with the system and not trying to game it, the idea is a good one and makes sense, and the changes are not extreme in any way.

Michebugio wrote:Premise: I’m reading a lot of prejudice against this player. Yes, he’s a choosy ass: but he’s definitely NOT a power player, if that is your concern. On the contrary, he has a lot of pretty good ideas.

Ok, let's get into detail then.

He's a Man of the Lake, and the background he had in mind was something like this:

A crafty hunter, born and raised in a farm near the Stairs of Girion, on the Lake banks south from Esgaroth. His father patrolled the Long Lake shores, sometimes venturing in the Long Marshes, until he died, dragged in the waters by a bog hag. The character inherited his father’s boat, his great bow and ultimately his job. As a talented archer, he also joined the Corporation, but somehow remained a lone wolf within their ranks. Now, he’s a gruff lonely man who lives on his wits and sometimes acts as a guide for the travelers who intend to cross or circumvent the Long Lake.

Now, none of the backgrounds of the Men of the Lake seem to fit this idea. It has some close affinity with the Barding’s background Patient Hunter, though: but he doesn’t like the idea very much, as he sees himself as born and raised on the Lake, not in Dale. As a Man of the Lake in his very bones, he even has a sort of grudge against the Dalish people, whom he sees as petty aristocrats who don’t consider the Esgarothians as their equals.

So, the Barding path is out of discussion. And none of the cultural backgrounds of the Men of the Lake seem to even get close to his idea.

So, in the end, I was thinking to give him the stats of a Patient Hunter (5/5/4, Hunting), but to let him use the starting Skills of the Men of the Lake, and also their Cultural Rewards and Virtues (otherwise, he can’t be an Archer of the Corporation). And to let him choose the Traits Clever and Keen Eye.

Would you allow it?

I see nothing amiss here except that Hutning as a favored skill doesn't seem to fit anywhere in his background. To me, the favored skills that seem to fit most are Explore (around Long Lake) Travel (as a guide for Long Lake), Athletics (for the boating/swimming he would likely be good at). That being said, if he *really* had to have Hunting, I would let him have it. In my opinion, favored skills are really not all that big of a deal. Honestly, I've found that any skill that you *REALLY* want to have, you're going to put skill ranks into, as the capacity for great/extraordinary successes are more enticing than having or wanting to spend hope for an attribute bonus (favored or otherwise) every time you want a basic success at something.

The traits are also fine.

Edit: Does he know he can get "Hunting" as a Favored Skill by having Wanderer/Warden as his calling? (Both of which seem to fit with his background, too)

If only you had posted this as part of your OP it would have been easier to avoid my prejudice against players wanting to be a special snowflake

However Lone Wolf hardly fits with the idea of being a Corporation man. I'd not allow him the opportunity to take the Bowman of the Guild or Merchant Prince Virtues as being not suitable for a lone wolf type haunting the lakeshore. I'd also not allow the Brazen Armour Rewards again as not suitable for someone who isn't a team player and part of the close-knit merchant guild in Lake Town. You could substitute other items more suitable to his lifestyle perhaps from the Woodman culture (Hunter's Resolve, Natural Watchfulness, a variation on Feathered Armour - same stats, different fluff).

I'd make him have Swimming and Boating as Traits as you said he get's a boat and patrols the edges of the Long lake. His third trait could be Keen-eye as he's a hunting type.

If he insists on that Bowman of the Guild Virtue you should be wondering if he's going to stack his Bow skills and make an uber-archer.

Yep, definitely has all the signs of a special snowflake: chooses a culture not in the core rulebooks, wants to play a grim loner, refuses any package offered. Special snowflakes usually aren't power-gamers; power-gamers don't care whether they're shaped from cookie-cutters so long as they WIN.

Loners don't work well in this game. (They tend not to work well in most games. Players who want to be loners tend to be disruptive as they constantly want to shift attention away from the party and toward their own doings.) He won't be able to have a fellowship focus, or else he's going to have to explain why his focus has changed his ways. You should come up with a distinct package for him. Here's my suggestion:

Body 5; Heart 2; Wits 7
(Heart is only 2 because he doesn't sound like he's got much hope, being gruff and lonely. Wits is highest because he's a "man who lives on his wits.")

Favored Skill: Travel
(His background doesn't explain clearly what he's best at, so I picked up on his being a guide for travelers on the Long Lake.)

Distinctive Features: Gruff (required), plus choose one of Cunning, Determined, Forthright, Hardened, Reckless, Secretive, Suspicious, Wary.

He should, of course, be required to have the Boating specialty and put some starting points into Great Bow skill.

I wonder if there should be a new rule: you can't use points from the fellowship pool unless you have a fellowship focus.

Hermes Serpent wrote:I'd make him have Swimming and Boating as Traits as you said he get's a boat and patrols the edges of the Long lake.

Boatmen often can't swim. I wouldn't require Swimming.

If your Father had been dragged off into the Marsh by a Marsh hag I'd sure want to have a Trait that gave me an auto-success against that fate

Rocmistro wrote:I see nothing amiss here except that Hutning as a favored skill doesn't seem to fit anywhere in his background. To me, the favored skills that seem to fit most are Explore (around Long Lake) Travel (as a guide for Long Lake), Athletics (for the boating/swimming he would likely be good at).

On the contrary, Hunting fits quite well in his idea: he's not an Explorer, as he tends to patrol only places he already know (and he knows more than a few, since he's grown there). He's not even a long distance Traveler: his territory is just the Long Lake and some inland around. And he's definitely good at boating, but it's not his main job.

He's mainly a patroller: he spots whatever seems wrong on the shores, he hunts wild carnivores preying on the herds of the Esgarothian farmers, and he follows the tracks of goblin raiders (or, sometimes, more dangerous beasts) in the inland around the Long Lake. So to me Hunting seems a good skill to represent this, maybe followed closely by Awareness (maybe a variation of the Sentinel background?).

By the way, what he really wants is to play a quick-witted guy, and since Bardings and Men of the Lake's Wits are the lowest in the game, I think that, maybe, he should have at least a background that grants him the highest value allowed to them (4). And this is reflected by the Attribute score allocation of Patient Hunter.

Rocmistro wrote:Edit: Does he know he can get "Hunting" as a Favored Skill by having Wanderer/Warden as his calling? (Both of which seem to fit with his background, too)

He will be definitely a Warden so this is a solution if we opt for a background without Hunting as a Favored Skill.

Hermes Serpent wrote:However Lone Wolf hardly fits with the idea of being a Corporation man. I'd not allow him the opportunity to take the Bowman of the Guild

He's always been a lone wolf, but he stated that in the Fellowship he will change, because as a part of his character's development he'll learn to discover the value of companionship, and friendship (cough *Into the Wild* cough). He's not going to be disruptive or to ignore having a Fellowhip Focus. In the end, he'll even reveal an unsuspecting charisma.
By the way, his father was a Corporation Man too, so the character was somehow recommended into it (though his bow skills are unquestionable). He's simply a low rank Corporation Archer who undergoes the minimum training (and socialization) required to be admitted in the Corps.

Stormcrow wrote:You should come up with a distinct package for him.

I wouldn't go as far as this. It feels even more like breaking the rules. At my table he's almost the epitome of the Men of the Lake, just a bit more "wild". So at least his Attribute scores should be coherent with those of the others from his culture.

Hermes Serpent wrote:If your Father had been dragged off into the Marsh by a Marsh hag I'd sure want to have a Trait that gave me an auto-success against that fate

... or maybe, you'll have a phobia for particularly deep and black waters, that triggers in the worst situations...

Michebugio wrote:

Rocmistro wrote:I see nothing amiss here except that Hutning as a favored skill doesn't seem to fit anywhere in his background. To me, the favored skills that seem to fit most are Explore (around Long Lake) Travel (as a guide for Long Lake), Athletics (for the boating/swimming he would likely be good at).

On the contrary, Hunting fits quite well in his idea: he's not an Explorer, as he tends to patrol only places he already know (and he knows more than a few, since he's grown there). He's not even a long distance Traveler: his territory is just the Long Lake and some inland around. And he's definitely good at boating, but it's not his main job.

He's mainly a patroller: he spots whatever seems wrong on the shores, he hunts wild carnivores preying on the herds of the Esgarothian farmers, and he follows the tracks of goblin raiders (or, sometimes, more dangerous beasts) in the inland around the Long Lake. So to me Hunting seems a good skill to represent this, maybe followed closely by Awareness (maybe a variation of the Sentinel background?).

By the way, what he really wants is to play a quick-witted guy, and since Bardings and Men of the Lake's Wits are the lowest in the game, I think that, maybe, he should have at least a background that grants him the highest value allowed to them (4). And this is reflected by the Attribute score allocation of Patient Hunter.

Fair enough; that info wasn't really availalble in the first thread you made about his background.

I'd just be careful that he's not looking to do a quadruple favored skill stack on favored wits though.

Funny if he played him with a phobia of being submerged in water

Here what about this? The name needs work

Wild at Heart

A crafty hunter, born and raised in a farm near the Stairs of Girion, on the Lake banks south of Esgaroth. Your father patrolled the Long Lake shores, sometimes venturing in the Long Marshes, until he died, dragged in the waters by a bog hag. You inherited you father’s boat, his great bow and ultimately his job. As a talented archer, you found employment with various merchant guilds, but were never content within their ranks. Now, you wander the wild places around Lake Town living on your wits and sometimes acting as a guide for the travellers who intend to cross or circumvent the Long Lake.

Basic Attributes
Body 4, Heart 6, Wits 4

Favoured Skill
Travel

Distinctive Features
(Choose two Traits from those listed)
Adventurous, Energetic, Gruff,
Honourable, Keen-eyed, Reckless, Wilful

They are probably going to be Persuade, Hunting, Awareness and Awe.

I'm actually thinking that he can't possibly have Awareness as Favored, since as a Warden he can only choose between Survival and Personality.

Maybe in the end he will be a variant of the Sentinel background, but I already know that those 3 points of Wits will upset him a bit