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Rocmistro wrote:I thought about ruling it (less dramatically) that the ease by which you generate AP's when using favored skills is moreso than non-favored skills. (This allows it to stay within the realm of LM governed approval.)

That's a great idea, Roc. It also makes a lot of sense that a Favored Skill should be easier to upgrade, because, well, it's FAVORED.

Stolen!

Give me some time to develop a coherent and simple ruling for your suggestion

Jon Hodgson wrote:Thanks for the edit - greatly appreciated.

You are welcome. All set. As I said in the other thread, a lot of times I just get an idea, and I'm excited, and I have to get it "down" before I get distracted with something else (work related). So it tends to come off as a bit more abrupt than I intend it to.

And let me also say, Jon and Andrew and any other C7 guys who might read this, despite all the posts that I (and I daresay others) might make about tweaking this or adjusting that, I love, love, LOVE this game. And all my passion, good or bad, right or wrong, stems from that and wanting it to be successful.

Michebugio wrote:

Rocmistro wrote:I thought about ruling it (less dramatically) that the ease by which you generate AP's when using favored skills is moreso than non-favored skills. (This allows it to stay within the realm of LM governed approval.)

That's a great idea, Roc. It also makes a lot of sense that a Favored Skill should be easier to upgrade, because, well, it's FAVORED.

Stolen!

Give me some time to develop a coherent and simple ruling for your suggestion

That's great, I'm glad you like it!

Half of me empathizes with Roc: Hope points are fairly "precious" so it seems odd that a skill that is favoured hardly ever looks different from one that is not.

But the other way of thinking about it is that when you have to dig extra deep to pull off something unlikely, you can go that extra little distance when the skill is favoured. (And telling a story to explain the math is fun, too.)

So, yeah, you will usually succeed with skill 3 (against normal TNs, that is.) But not always. Making a skill favoured...even one point makes a huge difference when you analyze the math for this...means that when you need it, your favoured skills are much less likely to let you down.

Example: "I've practiced really hard at being sneaky (Stealth 4), but when I get caught I can rely on my 'natural' speed, agility, and endurance to get out of trouble (Athletics 2, Favoured Body 8)." The average roll for both skills is just about the same (Athletics with a Hope point is ahead by 0.5) but the standard deviation on the Athletics roll is dramatically smaller, so you can count on it more reliably.

I think you really touched on the answer in your first post: skill points express what you're "good" at on an everyday basis. The "favoured" tag indicates something different; something you can rely on in a pinch. Not sure what the language is to describe it in "in-character" terms, but it's a probability-smoothing mechanic I really like in this game.

Elfcrusher wrote:I think you really touched on the answer in your first post: skill points express what you're "good" at on an everyday basis. The "favoured" tag indicates something different; something you can rely on in a pinch. Not sure what the language is to describe it in "in-character" terms, but it's a probability-smoothing mechanic I really like in this game.

Yes, Hope expenditure mechanic is pure gold. It gives the opportunity to players to stare in the eyes of the Random God saying: "not today!"

Also, I believe that many, if not all, of the "numbers" in your character sheet have really little impact taken one by one. Assigning 1 to 3 points to a Favored Attribute is a little difference, 1 point of difference in Body isn't that much, a Favored Skill isn't that different from a normal one, 2 points more of Endurance don't seem decisive, as 3 points of Fatigue less.

But then... you sum up everything, and during play you actually realize that your character is unique, with his strenghts and weaknesses, and your choices DID make an impact on his actions.

By the way, I still think that a Favored Skill needed a little extra "oomph". Just a little. And I think Rocmistro hit the sweet spot.

Michebugio wrote: Also, I believe that many, if not all, of the "numbers" in your character sheet have really little impact taken one by one. Assigning 1 to 3 points to a Favored Attribute is a little difference, 1 point of difference in Body isn't that much, a Favored Skill isn't that different from a normal one, 2 points more of Endurance don't seem decisive, as 3 points of Fatigue less.

But then... you sum up everything, and during play you actually realize that your character is unique, with his strenghts and weaknesses, and your choices DID make an impact on his actions.

By the way, I still think that a Favored Skill needed a little extra "oomph". Just a little. And I think Rocmistro hit the sweet spot.

The mechanic would not work in, say, the d20 system because the probability distribution is flat. You are just as likely to fail by 8 as you are to fail by 2. But in TOR you are vastly more likely to fail by 2 than by 8, so 2 extra points, at will, after the roll, is huge.

Rocmistro wrote:I thought about ruling it (less dramatically) that the ease by which you generate AP's when using favored skills is moreso than non-favored skills. (This allows it to stay within the realm of LM governed approval.)

I simply went with making favoured skills cheaper to purchase with APs than other skills. Been running with the house rule for about a year now and it's worked pretty well.

I also toyed with that idea, Rich, but I thought it might be too good. Glad to see you've given it a run through. What are the costs, if you don't mind me asking? 3 /6 / 9 / 12 /15 /18? (ie, multiples of 3 instead of 4?)

@Rocmistro

I might have an even simpler proposal.

Instead of invoking a Trait to obtain an AP, a Favored Skill simply lets the player to ask for an AP as if he invoked a Trait, even if none of his Traits is deemed applicable to the case.

All the remaining criteria remains the same, included the progressively harder conditions under which further AP in the same group can be acquired.

Essentially, "Favored" becomes like the right Trait to be invoked when rolling that Skill.

Rocmistro wrote:I also toyed with that idea, Rich, but I thought it might be too good. Glad to see you've given it a run through. What are the costs, if you don't mind me asking? 3 /6 / 9 / 12 /15 /18? (ie, multiples of 3 instead of 4?)

That's exactly what I went with.

I'm pretty happy with how this works out in play (ie, it doesn't change any rules with regard to what Favoured Skills do) but it does make them more attractive to develop as they are noticeably cheaper; especially at higher ranks.