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I have followed all of the normal rules for Valour increases. When it is a major change, like the bearded axe example, I have worked that in during the Fellowship phase based on where the group is. In my game, the fellowship was in Tharanduil's hall for the fellowship phase and one of the players spent time with the smiths. I think he added Grievous to his weapon and we explained that the elvish smiths had worked with him to forge a new weapon.

I have also, on occasion, given out "magic" items to the group. One was a Dagger that would do damage as a short sword. The "magic" was that it was a sword without encumbrance.

Another item was a circlet of the first men, it allowed the wearer to speak with the great eagles and other predator birds.

I also provided treasure in the form of a Mithril button. The "magic" was that it allowed the person that possessed it to carry 5 points of treasure with no encumbrance.

Once an NPC gave the character's a strange tea that removed 2 points of shadow.

So I am not giving out +5 Holy Avengers, but items that make game life easier for the characters. I think there are a lot of opportunities to provide additional reward to characters.

"So I am not giving out +5 Holy Avengers,"

And they don't have to be. Personally, I like your idea of a dagger that does Short Sword damage, and the Mithril Button is a good idea. Though I would have left it just a button...the fact it is made of mithril makes it treasure and special enough.

I just find that a system that is recreating a world that has items such as Glamdring, Orcist, Andruil, The Barrow Daggers, The Bow of the Woodland Realm not having a system for making items of power written into kind of strange.

Beran wrote:.

I just find that a system that is recreating a world that has items such as Glamdring, Orcist, Andruil, The Barrow Daggers, The Bow of the Woodland Realm not having a system for making items of power written into kind of strange.

"Glóin began then to talk of the works of his people, telling Frodo about their great labours in Dale and under the Mountain. ‘We have done well,’ he said. ‘But in metal-work we cannot rival our fathers, many of whose secrets are lost. We make good armour and keen swords, but we cannot again make mail or blade to match those that were made before the dragon came."

Perhaps all those that would pass along that knowledge have left or died. Perhaps those that remain (Galadriel?, Cirdan? Celeborn?) see no reason to instruct others or are far too busy to do so.

Evening wrote:

Beran wrote:.

I just find that a system that is recreating a world that has items such as Glamdring, Orcist, Andruil, The Barrow Daggers, The Bow of the Woodland Realm not having a system for making items of power written into kind of strange.

"Glóin began then to talk of the works of his people, telling Frodo about their great labours in Dale and under the Mountain. ‘We have done well,’ he said. ‘But in metal-work we cannot rival our fathers, many of whose secrets are lost. We make good armour and keen swords, but we cannot again make mail or blade to match those that were made before the dragon came."

Perhaps all those that would pass along that knowledge have left or died. Perhaps those that remain (Galadriel?, Cirdan? Celeborn?) see no reason to instruct others or are far too busy to do so.

Yes, well Loremasters may wish to create their own items of power that were made in the distant past only to be newly recovered (like Orcrist and Glamdring).

A similar system to that of Rewards in The One Ring is the system used in the excellent (but now out of print) setting by Fantasy Flight Games, called Midnight. Here, a character could find a weapon or other item, that would level up with him.

But here's another thought: say that a character finds a magical sword (akin to Orcrist or Glamdring). Could he use Reward Qualities to modify this weapon?

-E.

Evening wrote: Perhaps all those that would pass along that knowledge have left or died. Perhaps those that remain (Galadriel?, Cirdan? Celeborn?) see no reason to instruct others or are far too busy to do so.

My point being that, yes the art is a lost one, but the items of old still exist somewhere in the world waiting to found (ie Glamdring) and there is no "official" rules to represent them.

Not to mention that using the Reward system in the rules these items of power could be out striped by common items in pretty much no time.

Ferretz wrote:A similar system to that of Rewards in The One Ring is the system used in the excellent (but now out of print) setting by Fantasy Flight Games, called Midnight. Here, a character could find a weapon or other item, that would level up with him.

But here's another thought: say that a character finds a magical sword (akin to Orcrist or Glamdring). Could he use Reward Qualities to modify this weapon?

-E.

Ah yes the ancestral bloodline weapons of Midnight! Those were awesome. Midnight did have a good magic item crafting system - because like in M-e, magic was rare. The need to find a Nexus was a cool addition to the process to make it more unique and then restricting it further that a Nexus would be attuned to a certain magical effect meant many adventures could be conceived in just locating somewhere to make a cloak of fire resistance for instance.


I'm not 100% sure how you meant to have it work in your above question - but I could see something working where you find an "ancestral" weapon (for no better use of a word), and the wielder could spend their "VALOR" rewards on "unlocking" another ability of the weapon.

So a character finds a "orcrist" equivalent - but to unlock all of it's potential, they must use their VALOR increases to do so. Then it would be a question of whether the LM allows the player to KNOW what he is about to unlock, or to allow the player to CHOOSE from a list, or just unlocks a random ability or an arbitrary order of abilities known only to the LM. This would be a playstyle preference.

In the end, it would be little difference (at least mechanically) in that vs. adding another quality to a weapon via XP expenditure - except perhaps a) higher tiered ones can be a little more powerful than standard quality/awards - so long as the items are exceedingly rare and b) not limit to only 3 qualities on a weapon c) some of them with more unique and interesting abilities not associated with just combat statistic modifiers as they are now (like shedding light, allowing for Favored scores being used at night/underground when using Hope - much like the Elves innately have already), or allowing higher of two rolls of the feat dice on Awareness checks when being attacked by (fill in creature type) due to sword glowing blue/vibrating/chiming or humming in a song note, etc



Aside from that - I like what Templar had to say about what he provides.


And finally - I do not agree or support a "crafting" system of magic items in TOR like D&D or LOTRO has. The quote of the art of magic being lost is a good reason for starters. Imbalance to the system in use of the Craft skill is another pitfall that I predict would occur. Finally - it does what D&D has done with magic items since 3rd edition was released - and that is to remove the "magic" feeling of magical items. They are no longer (in that game) something to be treasured or wowed by; they now just a mechanical benefit to a character easily sold, crafted, etc. There's really no "magic" to it anymore. Though I do like D&D and 3rd ed (Pathfinder actually) specifically - the magic item crafting system is something I do not like at all and feel that it definitely cheapens a lot of the game's allure.


Robert

Beran wrote:
My point being that, yes the art is a lost one, but the items of old still exist somewhere in the world waiting to found (ie Glamdring) and there is no "official" rules to represent them.

Agreed. As I said in my previous post - I agree that these items do exist and should be accounted for (even if optionally). Though I do not feel that magical items should be crafted by PCs.

Robert

Yusei wrote:It raised a good question, though: why can't Roger give his sword to Paul when he finds a better one? I usually try to find a good, plot-driven reason, but hopefully such occurences remain rare.

Because it's not of narrative importance to Paul so he doesn't get the bonuses until he invests in it.

Every improvement spent on an item is a signal to the GM from the player "hey, GM, this item is important to me", and it becomes more and more part of the narrative and the PC.

In a similar way, consider two hobbits - Frendel and Garfield. Frendel's player described him as being slight of build and only 2'7" in height. Garfield is slightly larger, described as being 3'1" by his player. Garfield has the "Small Folk" virtue and therefore has the Small trait whereas Frendel doesn't have this trait and yet he's shorter then his companion. In other words, Garfield's player has invested in making the stature of his character so its narratively important and therefore has mechanical element attached to it.

I see many of the improvements to weapons and armour in the same light.

I hope the new rules are based upon guidelines for adding special/unique qualities to items and how those are factored into character build and points spends in order to maintain balance. This may not be something that's important to everyone but it's far easier to ignore rules relating to balance than it is to add them in. Some sample famous items would be great to see how they are represented in those rules but for me the priority is how they are 'paid for' within the game itself and to see them rated or classified in some way so that they can be compared against one another.