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Beran wrote:According to the way everyone here seems to think the only way he can get certain qualities added is by having some one make a new weapon.

I think I'm the only one here advocating making a new weapon. The others are saying that the old weapon can be improved by an NPC, or that an unknown quality can be discovered. I think that's fine in some cases, but not always.

Two of my characters have items with a huge background relevance, but I've added "loopholes" in those backgrounds to allow improvements later. The shield mentionned earlier had undeciphered runes, that were deciphered when the player improved his Valor and got his reward, for example.

Yusei wrote:

Beran wrote:According to the way everyone here seems to think the only way he can get certain qualities added is by having some one make a new weapon.

I think I'm the only one here advocating making a new weapon. The others are saying that the old weapon can be improved by an NPC, or that an unknown quality can be discovered. I think that's fine in some cases, but not always.

Yusei's right, Beran - others, myself included, have been giving other options instead of making a new weapon so it certainly isn't everyone that's said that, not by a long shot. I think a blend of different approaches, as in most things in life, is the way to go... Go with whatever is appropriate to the problem at hand - new weapon, magic, smithing to improve the current weapon, unknown qualities discovered, and/or meta-game it rather than give an in-gameworld explanation. More than one of these easily fit any quality/item enhancement.

Yusei wrote:Two of my characters have items with a huge background relevance, but I've added "loopholes" in those backgrounds to allow improvements later. The shield mentionned earlier had undeciphered runes, that were deciphered when the player improved his Valor and got his reward, for example.

A character in my campaign, Thogrim, does something similar. He carves dwarven runes into his axe to add whatever kind of quality he currently wants for the item. The runes tell stories of his adventures and the foes he has defeated, for me that covers any kind of additional quality he may choose and also is a good reason why another wielder would not get access to those qualities because it's dwarven runey magicky stuff.

Beran,
A Reward can also be handled as additional training the character receives within reason. So the hypothetical "Enflamed" reward (sword bursts into flame when drawn) would not generally be considered to be reasonable, unless dealing with a Maia (or better), because it is not a sword-fighting technique Boromir can teach the Hobbits (for example). I realize this moves the Reward from the item to the character and becomes moot to the original "pass it along" issue, I'm just pointing out that in the larger argument of how to add new features to an item it is potentially viable.

As for making a new weapon, even Aragorn had Narsil re-forged. I've always thought this meant someone melted the shards of Narsil, maybe threw in/took-out a bit of iron/steel/whatever, so the sword fit Aragorn appropriately (size, balance, etc), but otherwise the new blade matched the old blade (pre-shattering) as regards runes, blessings, etchings, or anything else done to it.

Modification might also work. Lets go back to the general "Enflamed" concept. That might be "reasonably" imitated by anointing a blade with the waters from the Phial of Galadriel. They already have a light producing special effect that might be said to burn evil creatures. It's not exact. You or I might decline the concept in our personal campaigns. No reason that So-and-So, in their personal campaign, can't make use of the idea though.

My original idea behind this question stemmed from the desire to see my PC's really find something magical, something they didn't expect to find, something they would cherish, and yes something they could lose. ( without plot protection, man do I hate that sentiment) Like someone mentioned earlier in this thread, I see the rewards in the fellowship phase as improvements and upgrading, they are not magical items.

Magic items should be rare but when found, powerful and even dangerous. They should never be on a list handed to the LM about what " I want" in the next adventure. I remember playing in a D&D 4th edition game and the DM asked me for a list and I asked a list of what? He explained to me, the new "Way" of doing things and it saddened me. I didn't enjoy playing in that game too much. ( I actually enjoy being surprised and not getting what my character wants. My character normally just wants to survive and go on adventures) I do like the way TOR does it better. The items in the fellowship phase seem more like improvements and upgrading so I think it actually works.

Still, I want to infuse my game with a little more magic and unpredictability. Will there be official rules regarding certain iconic magic items? Will we get stats for Sting, Anduril, Glamdring, etc. . .How about the rings of power? A palantir? A suit of Mithril Armour, like Frodo wore in Fellowship? With these examples, I'm sure I could craft my own magic items in time.

Has anyone here already tried this? I'd be interested in checking it out.

thanks

Alex

Blustar wrote:Magic items should be rare but when found, powerful and even dangerous.

Will there be official rules regarding certain iconic magic items? Will we get stats for Sting, Anduril, Glamdring, etc. . .How about the rings of power? A palantir? A suit of Mithril Armour, like Frodo wore in Fellowship?

I agree, & this is one of the reasons that ToR captures the flavor of Middle-earth so well. Most of us probably restrict rewards as per the RAW, though a few are considering allowing rare exceptions (such as posted on here). I'll be curious to see if allowing these exceptions eventually proves troublesome to these games or if it balances out. It all depends on the LM of course, & can probably work if handled with an eye to balance.

Yes, Francesco mentioned that they will (hopefully) address magical artifacts, such as Glamdring & Sting, in the future release of Rivendell (TBC).

Blustar,
I can easily accept your views on magical items, although it might not be too feasible. Magical items are dependent on having a magical system in order to account for special effects and the impact to game mechanics. Since their is such vehement objection to a magic system, it is my opinion that magic and magical items may be added at a slow pace. This would allow revoking items or correcting them through errata without as much impact as, say, having to declare half of a dedicated expansion anathema. Of course, all of this is my guess - I don't know what SG/C7 are doing any more than the rest of you.

BTW, magic and magical items just short of MERP levels, is theoretically acceptable to me. I would not use half of them, but it would allow LM's to set campaigns through out most of the timeline without having to re-design the wheel.

Blustar

I hope to address Magical items eventually in my Magical Rules supplement (see my sig for what I have done so far). As I recall this issue has been addressed by other fans in the forum as well. My main idea is the difference between a temporary (or limited use) magical item and one that is permanent - a permanent magical item requires a permanent loss of Endurance on the part of the maker.

stats for legendary magical items such as Orcrist, The One Ring etc. have been done for Decipher's LOTRRPG and MERP, it is just a matter of spending the time to convert to TOR - but first I want to get clear how magical items are created (a confused issue itself due to Tolkien's mixed writings on the subject).

Robin S.

Robin, you've done some great work on these so far & should have a very useful supplement.

BTW, I'm looking forward to what Francesco writes on this subject in Rivendell (TBC).

IIRC, he said he would officially address artifacts such as Orcrist in there.

Blustar wrote:My original idea behind this question stemmed from the desire to see my PC's really find something magical, something they didn't expect to find, something they would cherish, and yes something they could lose. ( without plot protection, man do I hate that sentiment) Like someone mentioned earlier in this thread, I see the rewards in the fellowship phase as improvements and upgrading, they are not magical items.

Magic items should be rare but when found, powerful and even dangerous. They should never be on a list handed to the LM about what " I want" in the next adventure. I remember playing in a D&D 4th edition game and the DM asked me for a list and I asked a list of what? He explained to me, the new "Way" of doing things and it saddened me. I didn't enjoy playing in that game too much. ( I actually enjoy being surprised and not getting what my character wants. My character normally just wants to survive and go on adventures) I do like the way TOR does it better. The items in the fellowship phase seem more like improvements and upgrading so I think it actually works.

Still, I want to infuse my game with a little more magic and unpredictability. Will there be official rules regarding certain iconic magic items? Will we get stats for Sting, Anduril, Glamdring, etc. . .How about the rings of power? A palantir? A suit of Mithril Armour, like Frodo wore in Fellowship? With these examples, I'm sure I could craft my own magic items in time.

Has anyone here already tried this? I'd be interested in checking it out.

thanks

Alex

Hey Alex - a few comments -

I too feel the way you do/did in addressing the state of magical items in D&D over the past 10 years or so.

As for magic items in TOR. I understand what you're asking for, and I agree that I too wish to add some measure of that goodness in my games. Do so and maintaining the game balance is the risky part as there's nothing official on the matter, and very few anecdotes from other players who have flirted with the idea to use as tutorials.


Finally - if at all possible, look into the magical items and creation system for the Midnight D20 campaign setting by Fantasy Flight Games. I think this will provide some measure of inspiration for you.


Robert