The Shire the most modern place in ME?

[Southron]

I do not mean that they could construct the Walls of Orthanc like the Men of the West did. But, in resemblance to our world of a few decades ago. IIRC the Shire has mechanical clocks, a postal service, museum's etc... are such things mentioned in Gondor, Erebor, Dale, or Esgaroth. I do recall something about Dwarves making mechanical toys though.

[Otaku-sempai]

Yes. Bag End in Hobbiton (in Tolkien's writings) is supposed to be our entry point into the Realm of Faerie. It is probably the most settled place in Middle-earth at the end of the Third Age, so we can identify with it as being the most like our modern world. The further we get from the Shire, the stranger, more magical and the more dangerous are the surroundings where we find ourselves. Even the safe places beyond the Shire's borders are full of magic and secrets.

[Stormcrow]

Middle-earth has a hodgepodge of technologies in it, most without explanation. The technology of the Shire is not meant to show us technological advancement, but comfortable civilization.

[zedturtle]

Yeah, and it can somewhat be explained away... the Shire represents what the people of Middle Earth are capable of, if not engaged in constant war with the Shadow. The Hobbits are able to make technological advances because of their safety and security but aren't interested in exporting them to other areas (Lotho's actions are considered uncouth and against the way "things are done").

[Stormcrow]

I wouldn't put it that way. Tolkien was against technological progress for its own sake. Hobbits were certainly capable of improving even their own advanced technology, but chose not to. Why change what's good and what works? You can see what happened when the Shadow arrived and made things more efficient! Sure, that new mill is more efficient and those new houses are cheap and easy to build, but the mill is ugly and loud and the houses are ramshackle and make their inhabitants miserable.

No, hobbits were generally very selective with what technologies they wanted. They liked technologies that helped you do work, but not technologies that did work for you. The mill is the closest thing to the latter, and notice that the millers are the ones who went bad and enjoyed it.

[Rocmistro]

I think the better term to represent their modernity might be "socially progressive", rather than "technology" There is nothing inherently technological about Postal Systems and/or Museums.

[Glorelendil]

I think the better term to represent their modernity might be "socially progressive", rather than "technology" There is nothing inherently technological about Postal Systems and/or Museums.

Agreed. The terminology of this thread is slightly misleading, I think.

I'm also not sure I believe that Gondor, for example, doesn't have a postal service or museums, based only on the evidence that they weren't worth mentioning in LoTR. Or sewers and aqueducts and trash collection.

"All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Numenoreans ever done for us?"

[Southron]

Yes. Bag End in Hobbiton (in Tolkien's writings) is supposed to be our entry point into the Realm of Faerie. It is probably the most settled place in Middle-earth at the end of the Third Age, so we can identify with it as being the most like our modern world. The further we get from the Shire, the stranger, more magical and the more dangerous are the surroundings where we find ourselves. Even the safe places beyond the Shire's borders are full of magic and secrets.

... The technology of the Shire is not meant to show us technological advancement, but comfortable civilization.

I think was what I was trying to articulate. I mentioned the messenger service as it was mentioned in LOTR that the Hobbiton and By-Water post offices being overwhelmed and calling out for the volunteer assistant post men. The clock in Bilbo's house, there were lawyers etc...It seemed like a very ordered society that most resembled our recent past.

I'm also not sure I believe that Gondor, for example, doesn't have a postal service or museums, based only on the evidence that they weren't worth mentioning in LoTR. Or sewers and aqueducts and trash collection.

In my post I asked were things such mentioned in the books for places such as Gondor, Dale, Esgaroth. I did not state that they did not exist. The Shire just stuck out in my mind especially in contrast to Rohan, the Woodmen, Dunland, and the Beornings.

I am quite sure that the people of Middle Earth relived themselves even though bathrooms breaks weren't mentioned in the books.

[Southron]

I guess a better way to have asked the question may have been to say in addition to the examples mentioned in the Shire are any other examples of such things existing outside of the Shire?

[Otaku-sempai]

Well, the Hobbits might have copied their Post Office from the Men of Arnor before that civilization fell. Gondor might well have had its own postal system, although anything bound for a place outside of Gondor's borders probably stood a good change of being lost or intercepted, or at least delayed significantly as it would have to have been passed on to someone who just happened to be going in the right direction.

I would guess that the first lawyers in Middle-earth were Men of Numenor. The profession was probably handed down to the peoples of Gondor and Arnor and passed to the Hobbits from Arnor. Likewise, the Numenoreans probably possessed museums and libraries which were later copied by their descendents.

Bilbo's mantle clock was possibly of Dwarven manufacture; it was probably a gift from Bungo Baggins to his new bride Belladonna.